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  1. #61
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Fe wants to connect, translate, transpose, find middle ground, use a common language to communicate as clearly and powerfully and informatively as possible. it is more of a chameleon when it comes to the articulation of the delicate shades of feeling and value judgment.

    but that doesn't mean you have to talk to/connect with stereotypical conventional extremely blase people. i don't- EVER, unless i am getting paid for it. in which case i'll use Fe to guide my interactions, but believe me i immediately feel every false note i ever speak (false compromise) and it grosses me out.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratus View Post
    Indeed, I think it's a good point. This is, in my sense, because Fe is directed outwardly, thus Fe want more appear empathic to the eyes of the others whereas Fi want more to feel inside themself that they are empathic, and this is, probably, one reason for the Fe "show" when caring others versus the quietness of Fi when they do the same thing. (I guess this can be also available for Ts, Te would be more attracted to appear logical to eyes of the observators, whereas Ti would be more likely to be attracted to feel logical for themselves)
    yep, Fi demands authenticity without show; Image doesn't really come into it. The idea is to do good and be a decent person, not to be seen to do good and act like one. The motivation is protection, and improvement of people; Helping everyone to reach their potential. Stopping people from being wrongfully bulldozed or walked on, but from a human perspective rather than social one. Getting people out of the ruts they end up in, and helping them understand themselves and get back on track to live a more fulfilling life.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  3. #63

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    Fe is basically the function equal to what neuroscientist and psychologist call a theory of mind. If you don't have it you are unable to integrate into any group. Because if you are not able to read other people intentions and expectation you will be seen as an outsider by them. This function is impaired in autistic people. You could also say Fe is the glue that sticks us together as members of our society.
    Thoughts die the moment they are embodied by words. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    yep, Fi demands authenticity without show; Image doesn't really come into it. The idea is to do good and be a decent person, not to be seen to do good and act like one. The motivation is protection, and improvement of people; Helping everyone to reach their potential. Stopping people from being wrongfully bulldozed or walked on, but from a human perspective rather than social one. Getting people out of the ruts they end up in, and helping them understand themselves and get back on track to live a more fulfilling life.
    I think there is far too much value judgment here. Fi is not good in itself. Fi only means you know your own feelings in any given situation. If not well-balanced Fi could well make you a very selfish person that will ignore other peoples feeling.

    What you are describing here is a person who has by own experience (Ne/Se) developed a good grasp of their own humanity by using their introverted feeling. You can now see another person suffering because you have been in this position yourself (Fi). If you are able to acknowledge the suffering of another person you are actually using your feeling in an extroverted way. Therefore if you have a very high-developed Fi you are able to better empathise with other people. This is how Fi and Fe connect.
    Thoughts die the moment they are embodied by words. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

  5. #65
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    Fi for infp is like a snowball that keeps growing. there is an inward core that sucks in everything, concentrating itself and transforming everything into an extension of its own belief, faith, feeling, dream, etc. it translates life into feeling, into love and hope and despair. it is either a sun or a black hole and at times it feels like nothing can stop its rise or fall. (infp healer, dreamer, etc)

    enfp Fi seems so diffusive and scattered and world love. it is constantly expressing its direction and desires so it becomes more fluid in its articulation/actualization than infp Fi. but it IS inwardly driven. it generally has an easier time cultivating itself and finding supportive environments bc it is energized by experience and interaction and other people. so it is less depressive and stuck in place and doesn't have teh same cost of admission (concentration) as infp. it moves in so many more directions, it is easier to please bc its idealism/feeling-tone is directed outwardly in very real and social ways (champion, visionary, etc).
    Wow, thank you for your 3rd party (not an ENFP or INFP) observation. Seriously. It resonates, articulates, and explains some key differences (that caused rifts in my particular cases) between myself and a few INFPs I have known...
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  6. #66

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    With some of the posts in here, I'm starting see why people typed Hitler INFJ...

    Please raise the personal respect level a little, and avoid competitive undermining of people's value.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #67
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Awwww, why do you say that Noigm?

    BTW There is a lot of Fe and Fi in this thread about Fe and Fi. I think that's funny. In a [non-]ironic sort of way.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  8. #68

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    hehe. The whole Fi selfish function thing was starting again. I'm getting bored of finding new ways to tell people to get some perspective, or look at it from other people's point of view.

    "Some Fi people seem selfish from my perspective" would be the correct statement. "Fi is selfish or self directed" has no basis in any reality. And Fi doesn't make any type more prone to selfishness either. To suggest such a thing is actually quite discriminatory.

    Also it creates unnecessary arguments. Why not look to learn in these threads. Find ways to love the world as it is, rather than trying to change it to fit an ideal reality. My only objection here is that statements are being made that are subtly damaging, or inflammatory. And they are unnecessary statements. An Fe type can tell us all about Fe. An Fi type can tell us all about Fi. Share thoughts, learn, appreciate each other, connect. Use the primary sources to get the information.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  9. #69
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Feeling in the Introverted attitude, straight from the horse's mouth:
    3. Feeling
    Introverted feeling is determined principally by the subjective factor. This means that the feeling-judgment differs quite as essentially from extraverted feeling as does the introversion of thinking from extraversion. It is unquestionably difficult to give an intellectual presentation of the introverted feeling process, or even an approximate [p. 490] description of it, although the peculiar character of this kind of feeling simply stands out as soon as one becomes aware of it at all. Since it is primarily controlled by subjective preconditions, and is only secondarily concerned with the object, this feeling appears much less upon the surface and is, as a rule, misunderstood. It is a feeling which apparently depreciates the object; hence it usually becomes noticeable in its negative manifestations. The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were. Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined -- they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence.
    Primordial images are, of course, just as much idea as feeling. Thus, basic ideas such as God, freedom, immortality are just as much feeling-values as they are significant as ideas. Everything, therefore, that has been said of the introverted thinking refers equally to introverted feeling, only here everything is felt while there it was thought. But the fact that thoughts can generally be expressed more intelligibly than feelings demands a more than ordinary descriptive or artistic capacity before the real wealth of this feeling can be even approximately [p. 491] presented or communicated to the outer world. Whereas subjective thinking, on account of its unrelatedness, finds great difficulty in arousing an adequate understanding, the same, though in perhaps even higher degree, holds good for subjective feeling. In order to communicate with others it has to find an external form which is not only fitted to absorb the subjective feeling in a satisfying expression, but which must also convey it to one's fellowman in such a way that a parallel process takes place in him. Thanks to the relatively great internal (as well as external) similarity of the human being, this effect can actually be achieved, although a form acceptable to feeling is extremely difficult to find, so long as it is still mainly orientated by the fathomless store of primordial images. But, when it becomes falsified by an egocentric attitude, it at once grows unsympathetic, since then its major concern is still with the ego. Such a case never fails to create an impression of sentimental self-love, with its constant effort to arouse interest and even morbid self-admiration just as the subjectified consciousness of the introverted thinker, striving after an abstraction of abstractions, only attains a supreme intensity of a thought-process in itself quite empty, so the intensification of egocentric feeling only leads to a contentless passionateness, which merely feels itself. This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more [p. 492] does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts.
    I have to say this is the only thing that comes close to describing what I think Fi is.
    Fe is so much easier to grasp because you can see it in action.
    I also think you guys need to define empathy, because as far as I'm aware Fi dom types are empathetic too, it's just Fe dom types are more likely to express the empathy they feel.

    Another way to look at it
    Fe(xpression)
    Fi(nternalised)
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    hehe. The whole Fi selfish function thing was starting again. I'm getting bored of finding new ways to tell people to get some perspective, or look at it from other people's point of view.

    "Some Fi people seem selfish from my perspective" would be the correct statement. "Fi is selfish or self directed" has no basis in any reality. And Fi doesn't make any type more prone to selfishness either. To suggest such a thing is actually quite discriminatory.

    Also it creates unnecessary arguments. Why not look to learn in these threads. Find ways to love the world as it is, rather than trying to change it to fit an ideal reality. My only objection here is that statements are being made that are subtly damaging, or inflammatory. And they are unnecessary statements. An Fe type can tell us all about Fe. An Fi type can tell us all about Fi. Share thoughts, learn, appreciate each other, connect. Use the primary sources to get the information.
    Just in case this message is indirectly directed towards my statement. I have never ever said that Fi IS a selfish function.
    By the way I think it is . But having said that, every man is supposed to be selfish. We have to be selfish in order to survive. If you never think of your own needs you would be really stupid. If you ruin yourself, the people who rely on you will be just as bad off. And thinking of your own needs is exactly what Fi does. I think this is not necessarily a bad thing. The opposite holds true. How can you care for someone else if you do not know your own needs? This is what I have also said in a previous post.

    Fi is the basis for real empathy. You can only empathize if you know what someone else is going through by having been there yourself and know your own feelings about it (Fi). However seeing that suffering in somebody else means, you are using Fe, because you apply your feelings outwardly.
    And just in case you do not understand the theory behind it: We all use our feeling in an introverted and an extroverted way. The wonderful thing about these functions is that we all have them and we all use them to a more or lesser extend. Do you think I am not using Fi just because you read somewhere it was my 6 th function? The moment I drink I cup of tea and I like it, that is when I am using my Fi.
    Thoughts die the moment they are embodied by words. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

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