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  1. #21
    Senior Member Kollin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfsprin View Post
    yeah- before my 'grand realization,' part of that disquiet i mentioned feeling definitely had to do with feeling like this must in some way be sort of a cliche that bordered on being an excuse.

    thanks
    I had a thought later about that maybe this adage is talking more about being comfortable in your own skin...idk, just a thought
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  2. #22
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    "you must love yourself before anyone else can love you"
    If you don't love yourself, you won't be able to perceive happiness, self esteem and confidence, and without those things you may not be very attractive to others...and even if you find someone to love you, it won't be before too long before your insecurities and things arise and may weigh you down and cause you to screw things up for yourself and in the relationship, you may not think you're good enough or worthy of being in the relationship or with that certain individual. Self sabotaging could be an unconscious act that you do w/o even realizing it. You could be in denial that you dislike or even hate yourself.



    "you must love yourself before you can love another"
    My response to this is somewhat similar to the quote above in that if you are unhappy and inscure about yourself it'll get in the way of you providing unconditional love. You will also question how worthy you are of another and so on, and because of this, not be able to really offer them what you're capable of.


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfsprin View Post
    what if someone was actually pretty great, but due mostly to the influence and input of others with malicious intent they had come to perceive of themself as worthless and broken. i don't want to paint a picture here of someone who is timid and victimized, but rather of someone who has a strong character, who acts on this negative concept of themself by putting themself continually 'through the ringer' in their attempts to become a better person. what could redemptive love look like in that scenario, what kind of a person would the redeemer have to be? this seems like a plausible scenario to me.
    Hmm... I don't think I have ever met anyone who has poor self image and is still himself. I think that self-respect is one really big element in freeing yourself to be you. Still, if we think about the redeemer, he obviously needs to be someone who

    1) Sees through the poor self to the true self or potential self.
    I don't think that this is possible to many (if anyone) because mostly we project. Therefore:

    2) Is healthy enough not to project.
    Which means that the redeemer should be someone very very rare. He should be like super-healthy psychologically.

    3) Is willing to make the effort.
    To think how rare the people are who can see past the poor self, it is highly unlikely that one of them is actually willing to make the effort. I think a person with superior psychological health is likely to go and find someone equal.

    So, for practicality, I might say it is once in a million chance. Compared to that, "love yourself" works better. Of course, I am not of superior psychological health, so I might not know what the redeemer would think.

  4. #24
    Junior Member elfsprin's Avatar
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    as a T, i feel a strong need to comprehend and understand why a partner might love me, which i think is something that lies at the heart of this adage's validity for me.

    how do any Fs around here experience this need to intellectually comprehend a partner's love- the motivations, how their love may reveal things about their character based on what they seem to value, the internal standards or sets of criteria they operate with which are evinced by their emotions, etc.? does it play a substantial role in your romantic relationships?

    one thing i've heard a lot about is the magical 'i just know' when it comes to love. i feel that it relates to the topic because i personally feel that my penchant for analysis-ad-nauseam, which i have to fight quite relentlessly to turn off, may at many times be really and truly inappropriate. i do feel that most of my dissatisfaction with myself is justified, and that it's a positive thing overall because i find overzealous self-critique to be far preferable to self-deceit. but, on the other hand, some of this beratement that i toss my own way might be way over the top and blown out of proportion, and i have a really hard time seeing that clearly. i think this works the other way around as well: i end up over analyzing the actions, words and emotions that are sent my way by someone that i'm in a relationship with because i need to understand it in an intellectual capacity. so, i feel like this ties into the thread topic, as the antithesis to over-analyzing seems to be the 'i just know' phenomenon.

    i wonder if Fs tend to experience love from another person primarily through 'just knowing' and secondarily through comprehension? it seems like the obvious answer might be yes, but i'm asking anyway it almost seems like Fi might desire comprehension over 'just knowing' in a way that is very similar to the Ti urge to understand. has that been anyone's experience?

  5. #25
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    Less talk, more love!

  6. #26
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfsprin View Post
    i wonder if Fs tend to experience love from another person primarily through 'just knowing' and secondarily through comprehension? it seems like the obvious answer might be yes, but i'm asking anyway it almost seems like Fi might desire comprehension over 'just knowing' in a way that is very similar to the Ti urge to understand. has that been anyone's experience?
    The short answer, at least for me, is yes.

    I've had problems with my self-esteem as long as I can remember. But, despite that, I did know when a guy was interested, and when a partner loved me. It drove me mad though as for the life of me I couldn't understand (and believe me, I tried), but there was no denying it. I quickly learned that although I might not see what those guys see in me, they were being nonetheless truthful when showing interest, friendship and even love for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Less talk, more love!


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    I'm always happy to comply (within reason )
    This is excellent news. Reason happens to be my speciality.

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