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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    I am introverted but I have the same problem that once I get talking people sometimes don't seem to be able to follow my tangents (so I rather stay on the safe side and ask questions instead) To me my words and speed of talking seem completely coherent but obviously not to everyone else.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Translator's Trick: try to learn the basic grammar and pick up a vocabulary list in the field that you need the language in
    Thanks . I'm going to be in Netherlands in April. I know most people speak English but I want to speak some Dutch, cos last time I couldn't.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  3. #23
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Thanks . I'm going to be in Netherlands in April. I know most people speak English but I want to speak some Dutch, cos last time I couldn't.
    There's this series of books I use to learn other languages for fun, I believe it's called 'Learning Dutch in Three Months'. I got that book for my bf. I myself have the Spanish, Italian, Norwegian and Russian version of it. They're quite good, without overloading you
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  4. #24
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    ENFPs are many times described as charming, witty, funny etc. This all sounds really great or too good to be true but lets consider the other side of the coin and I mean lets consider it the positive way (Hey Im an ENFP anyway).

    So, Ive been told that Im too talkative and very challenging to talk to (a psychologist said this) because of my speed in talking and the speed my brain jumps from one thing to another to the third and back to the first and so on. Ive been always thinking that my way of thinking is easy to follow and that its pretty easy to talk to me. Now I understand the trouble many people have with me. Sometimes I think its too many people who have trouble understanding my way of thinking.

    Do you have the same problem/do people see this with ENFPs?
    Any other challenges people have with you fellow ENFPs?
    I have been classified as a very vocal, opinionated girl, but I am not, nor have I ever been talkative in the negative chatty Cathy sense.

    Sometimes, when I am superdupersuper excited I will talk very fast but usually I talk at a normal speed and enunciate my words clearly.

    Oratory is something I feel quite comfortable engaging in, and I have been told by many that I am a "great speaker", whatever that means.

    As for being understood, I really try my hardest to relay my thoughts and ideas clearly and most effectively, and depending on my audience, I will moderate how much Ne I will allow to flow through my speech.

    Some of my zanier ideas are met with or , but, oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I can totally relate to this. And the worst thing is, I do this in any language, whether I speak it well or not. It used to baffle my Russian teacher. And it gets even worse and more incoherent if you stress me.

    Other things I've been called are: too blunt coz I don't polish my sentences sometimes enough, overwhelming, too nosy, aggressive (coz I was passionate about something), self-absorbed (coz I tend to relate personally to things that are told), intimidating, etc etc
    I have been accused or described as being too blunt.

    I have been guilty of being overwhelming at times, but more often than not realize in the process that I am being so, and apologize and adjust myself accordingly.

    I have never been accused of being too nosy, I value my privacy and respect the privacy of others.

    I have been accused of being aggressive and can be aggressive in certain situations, but rarely am so, I am incredibly assertive, especially for being a girl, though.

    As for being too passionate, yeah, I guess that happens, but being too passionate doesn't even exist in my world, one can never be too passionate, imo. My passion can overwhelm others at times, though.

    I have never been accused of being self-absorbed.

    I have been accused of being intimidating more than I can count, but the very thought of being intimidating disgusts me. I never attempt to intimidate people, but rather attempt to connect/relate.

    And then there's the typical frustrations of: not answering your phone, not being somewhere on time, procrastination, not being aware of social obligations or forgetting about those, etc etc
    Guilty, guilty, guilty and guilty.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  5. #25
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I have been classified as a very vocal, opinionated girl, but I am not, nor have I ever been talkative in the negative chatty Cathy sense.

    Sometimes, when I am superdupersuper excited I will talk very fast but usually I talk at a normal speed and enunciate my words clearly.

    Oratory is something I feel quite comfortable engaging in, and I have been told by many that I am a "great speaker", whatever that means.

    As for being understood, I really try my hardest to relay my thoughts and ideas clearly and most effectively, and depending on my audience, I will moderate how much Ne I will allow to flow through my speech.

    Some of my zanier ideas are met with or , but, oh well.
    I'm not chatty either the way you described it. I'm talkative but I didn't mean talkative in a chatty sense (even if I can do that too but most of the time it feels somewhat lame).

    My talkativeness comes out mostly when my Ne is released. I get excited about some idea or thought then I go with my Ne flow. That state of Ne flow is totally something that I truly enjoy but I have noticed that most people (except people with strong Ne) find it hard to follow it.

    I can be also very preciese if I choose to be. One ENFJ was once very surprised to see me very official, very organized and very preciese in my talk because he had seem me very unofficial most of time. So I can be like that but most of the time I prefer not.

    I can be also aggressive when I get passionated about some things. I can be pushy too, but it requires a strong emotional backup.

    My original post's meaning was not to say that all ENFP's are alike. It was just to see what kind of problems people seem have with (some) ENFP's. And for heavens sakes, I'm happy we are all different even if within the same MBTI type.
    Last edited by alcea rosea; 11-26-2008 at 12:21 AM.

  6. #26
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    ENFPs are many times described as charming, witty, funny etc. This all sounds really great or too good to be true but lets consider the other side of the coin and I mean lets consider it the positive way (Hey Im an ENFP anyway).

    So, Ive been told that Im too talkative and very challenging to talk to (a psychologist said this) because of my speed in talking and the speed my brain jumps from one thing to another to the third and back to the first and so on. Ive been always thinking that my way of thinking is easy to follow and that its pretty easy to talk to me. Now I understand the trouble many people have with me. Sometimes I think its too many people who have trouble understanding my way of thinking.

    Do you have the same problem/do people see this with ENFPs?
    Any other challenges people have with you fellow ENFPs?
    Sometimes they assume that because they've thought about telling you something, the conversation has actually already taken place! They imagine that other people are as good at mind-reading as they are; they're almost invariably wrong about that. They can be overly sensitive to perceived slights and read far too much into situations. They agonize over stuff rather than come to conclusions or take action. They are too good at getting other people to think/do stuff for them. They may have a lot of potential and talent but are only able to see these things in others, rarely in themselves. They are often unaware of their motivations - self-deception can be a problem. They ask for lots of advice but rarely take it. They can be very intense at the beginning of a relationship but then get disillusioned easily and can cut people off completely when that happens. They are crap at follow through. They are always at least an hour late for everything. They talk too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #27
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Sometimes they assume that because they've thought about telling you something, the conversation has actually already taken place! They imagine that other people are as good at mind-reading as they are; they're almost invariably wrong about that. They can be overly sensitive to perceived slights and read far too much into situations. They agonize over stuff rather than come to conclusions or take action. They are too good at getting other people to think/do stuff for them. They may have a lot of potential and talent but are only able to see these things in others, rarely in themselves. They are often unaware of their motivations - self-deception can be a problem. They ask for lots of advice but rarely take it. They can be very intense at the beginning of a relationship but then get disillusioned easily and can cut people off completely when that happens. They are crap at follow through. They are always at least an hour late for everything. They talk too much.
    I agree with most of what you wrote there. Looks like you know some ENFP very well or have analyzed somebody well...?

    About the advice asking part - I ask advice because I want to see the thing from different angles. So, when asking for advice I'm not really asking for advice, I'm asking for a different kind of view. When (if) I get to see the thing from different angles, (maybe) then I can decide what I want to do. And if somebody tells me what to do, I will certainly not do it (I hate when people give orders to me ).

  8. #28
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I agree with most of what you wrote there. Looks like you know some ENFP very well or have analyzed somebody well...?

    About the advice asking part - I ask advice because I want to see the thing from different angles. So, when asking for advice I'm not really asking for advice, I'm asking for a different kind of view. When (if) I get to see the thing from different angles, (maybe) then I can decide what I want to do. And if somebody tells me what to do, I will certainly not do it (I hate when people give orders to me ).

    Couldn't agree more, especially that last line *grin*
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  9. #29
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Sometimes they assume that because they've thought about telling you something, the conversation has actually already taken place!
    I don't get what you mean by this.

    They imagine that other people are as good at mind-reading as they are; they're almost invariably wrong about that.
    Never as good as myself, per se, but I definitely tend to think people are better at mind-reading than they actually are.

    They can be overly sensitive to perceived slights and read far too much into situations
    Sometimes, yes.

    They agonize over stuff rather than come to conclusions or take action.
    Guilty.

    They are too good at getting other people to think/do stuff for them.
    If I don't want to do something so much so that I'll refuse to do it, I will deal with the consequences of my not doing it, but if someone wants whatever it is that I don't want to do to be done, they are more than welcome to do it themselves, or "for me".

    They may have a lot of potential and talent but are only able to see these things in others, rarely in themselves.
    Perhaps.

    They are often unaware of their motivations - self-deception can be a problem.
    Disagree entirely with this, wow, wholeheartedly. I hate my inability to deceive myself. Having self-awareness is both a blessing and a curse.

    They ask for lots of advice but rarely take it
    I am not one to really ask for much advice. But when I am in a desperate enough situation to actually ask for it, I will go to someone or some source I respect and listen to the advice that is given.

    They can be very intense at the beginning of a relationship but then get disillusioned easily and can cut people off completely when that happens
    Guilty.

    They are crap at follow through.
    Guilty.

    They are always at least an hour late for everything
    Untrue.

    They talk too much.
    Untrue.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    I definitely can relate. I usually adjust my speech depending on the person I am speaking with. Sadly, most people would be confused if I talked like I wanted to--skipping tracks and jumping from idea to idea. Additionally, the people who are able to keep up, I usually overwhelm within minutes of realizing their capacity for understanding me... cause it's just so rare. Nevertheless, the few people in my life who verbally/mentally challenge me are some of my favorites.
    Ditto!
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