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[NF] talents, hardwork, and luck : which matters the most?

Darjur

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I admit that what you've said is true. However having an exceptionally good voice is not a requirement to becoming a pop star. My working criteria was being "good enough" to succeed not being the best. Talent certainly is needed if you want to be top dog.

If you have talent, to be just "good enough", hard work isn't required.
 

Kasper

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Talent without hard work is a set up for failure.

Hard work without talent, also a set up for failure (and frankly, a little sad to watch).

You make your own luck.
 

placebo

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I think everyone is given a fair distribution of some kind of talent and some kind of luck. Hardwork takes you that much further. Hardwork develops your talent and creates your 'luck'. You can have a lot of talent and a good amount of luck, but unless you're REALLY lucky, which is unlikely, you'll still amount to the average person if you're damn lazy or just don't try. Being hardworking and disciplined can get you as far as you try and at the very least you can feel good about knowing you tried your hardest to get where you are. A hardworking person probably has the integrity not to care about society's preconceived notions of success, or as in your example that some Britney Spears was more popular than them even though they had tried harder. A hardworking person will likely be happy with whatever success they have achieved and it would mean more to them than any kind of 'lucky' success other people have.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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I've noticed several J's say they don't believe in luck. I suppose that makes sense since P's are more likely to take advantage of unexpected opportunities. J's might view anything outside the plan as a temporary setback, while P's might actually see it as a stroke of good luck.
 

Darjur

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I've noticed several J's say they don't believe in luck. I suppose that makes sense since P's are more likely to take advantage of unexpected opportunities. J's might view anything outside the plan as a temporary setback, while P's might actually see it as a stroke of good luck.

I'd say it's more an issue of definition of luck.
 

niki

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I think everyone is given a fair distribution of some kind of talent and some kind of luck. Hardwork takes you that much further. Hardwork develops your talent and creates your 'luck'. You can have a lot of talent and a good amount of luck, but unless you're REALLY lucky, which is unlikely, you'll still amount to the average person if you're damn lazy or just don't try. Being hardworking and disciplined can get you as far as you try and at the very least you can feel good about knowing you tried your hardest to get where you are. A hardworking person probably has the integrity not to care about society's preconceived notions of success, or as in your example that some Britney Spears was more popular than them even though they had tried harder. A hardworking person will likely be happy with whatever success they have achieved and it would mean more to them than any kind of 'lucky' success other people have.

i find this to be a very good and inspiring post to me.
thank you :)
 

ed111

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Samuel Goldwyn : "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

I find that for 99% of jobs talent is of little use.
 

file cabinet

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I'd like to add a fourth item: who you know. fostering your social network is extremely important... if people in your social network know you are either talented or are a hard worker then that's an important gateway to opportunities.
 

ptgatsby

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Does Britney Spears have talent? Surely not! But she succeeded... why? Hardwork... not exactly on her part, but on the part of her manager and her advertising group.


I'm curious about Britney being used as an example in these contexts.

First, I would consider her talented, notably so in the big picture. She might not be top 1%, but she is more than average.

Second, she does work hard - and has since she was a child.

Third, she wasn't lucky. She was doing competitions and recordings since she was 8. It's not like she woke up and got discovered.

Her extreme success managed to come from market penetration, which you could say is luck, perhaps, but...

I believe "intuitive regression" would show that it goes in order: Hard work, Talent, Luck. Better put, I would say "time and effort", "initial conditions", "external factors".
 

nightning

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If you have talent, to be just "good enough", hard work isn't required.
Not quite true. Effort doesn't just apply to practicing. There's also a huge component in promoting yourself. You can be a genius at something, but if nobody has ever heard of you, you haven't succeed. I guess in this case I'm defining success as social recognition... money and fame. Thought I should point that out.

I'm curious about Britney being used as an example in these contexts.

First, I would consider her talented, notably so in the big picture. She might not be top 1%, but she is more than average.

Second, she does work hard - and has since she was a child.

Third, she wasn't lucky. She was doing competitions and recordings since she was 8. It's not like she woke up and got discovered.

Her extreme success managed to come from market penetration, which you could say is luck, perhaps, but...

I believe "intuitive regression" would show that it goes in order: Hard work, Talent, Luck. Better put, I would say "time and effort", "initial conditions", "external factors".
It was brought up previously in the discussion. Her and Christina Aguillerra. Who has a better voice talent? That was what I was referring to. Clearly Christina, yet they're equally famous... in fact the younger generation might say Britney is more famous.

Britney wasn't famous because of luck, but because of her mother endless drive. I don't believe in luck.
 

substitute

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I don't believe in luck.

I do. I prefer to call it serendipity though... it's not something good happening just because you believed hard enough or crap like that, it's something happening that seemed unlikely but which was, in reality, inevitable, given the various threads of circumstances that led inexorably to intersect where they did.

I think that if you think hard work or talent alone can get you somewhere, and refuse to take account of 'luck', you're mistaken... luck is, to me, elements and variables that are beyond the individual's control or ability to predict but which, nonetheless, inevitably have a profound effect on that individual's life. And that really does happen. That's why flexibility is essential.
 

nightning

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I do. I prefer to call it serendipity though... it's not something good happening just because you believed hard enough or crap like that, it's something happening that seemed unlikely but which was, in reality, inevitable, given the various threads of circumstances that led inexorably to intersect where they did.

I think that if you think hard work or talent alone can get you somewhere, and refuse to take account of 'luck', you're mistaken... luck is, to me, elements and variables that are beyond the individual's control or ability to predict but which, nonetheless, inevitably have a profound effect on that individual's life. And that really does happen. That's why flexibility is essential.

Serendipity is in some sense "controllable". We wouldn't notice the importance of an accident unless we're observant. The occurrence of these events is based on probability. The more we try the more likely they'll occur. That's my take on it.
 

ptgatsby

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I don't believe in luck.

I kind of agree. It's true, assuming there are enough repeat instances in which all existing odds are 'rolled'.

It's "lucky" for someone off the street to marry a millionaire. It's not lucky if that same person targets millionaires until they marry one. It's all in the framing of odds that makes one 'lucky'.
 

quietmusician

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It has to be luck. You can be great at everything, but fail as a whole.
 

kyuuei

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I believe hardwork.. If you have talent and luck, and no motivation to put your awesome abilities to use, what good are they?

The reverse could be said.. having no luck and talent, you may work hard but get no where.. but I believe without working hard you'll definitely get no where.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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I find that for 99% of jobs talent is of little use.

Actually I mostly agree with this. I believe that talent contributes more toward competence than hard work does. However most jobs don't require much competence. They only require hard work. (Some jobs don't require either.)
 

niki

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trying to revive the old thread again! :D

well,..what do u guys think about this one??
let's hear your opinions! :)
 

niki

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I've noticed several J's say they don't believe in luck. I suppose that makes sense since P's are more likely to take advantage of unexpected opportunities. J's might view anything outside the plan as a temporary setback, while P's might actually see it as a stroke of good luck.

interesting observation...
 
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