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  1. #11
    Member Seraph's Avatar
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    Hard work, Talent, then Luck. Talent alone will only get you so far. Once you hit a certain point where everyone else is just as talented as you, then it becomes a matter of how much work you put into it.

  2. #12
    Senior Member niki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Hard work, Talent, then Luck. Talent alone will only get you so far. Once you hit a certain point where everyone else is just as talented as you, then it becomes a matter of how much work you put into it.
    so doesn't this mean talent would come first, then afterwards, after you're "on par" with your competitions (ie: another 'talented' people), then that's where hard work start matters.
    but in order to get 'there' (ie: hard work), the starting point is whether the person has the talent , or not, is it?

    but then music industry is sometimes (or often) different matter, and market is hard to predict.. just like that Britney Spears example..
    although i'd argue that Christina aguilerra is talented, even more talented than Britney, and she can have SAME success as Britney,..so in the end yes: talent DOES matter , in fact, it's very important ?
    but it seems this doesn't apply to Britney's case..
    i think in her case, there comes another factor: "charisma" , or "image" ? so she can get succesful like right now?
    it's getting a bit complicated here

  3. #13
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Luck really doesn't exists... there's only probability. The more times you try, the more likely you are to succeed. That said, hardwork > talents.

    It's true that talent is innate, however the lack of talent can be compensated for by hardwork. Without effort, it matters very little whether you have talent or not. You will not succeed.

    Does Britney Spears have talent? Surely not! But she succeeded... why? Hardwork... not exactly on her part, but on the part of her manager and her advertising group.

  4. #14
    Member Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niki View Post
    so doesn't this mean talent would come first, then afterwards, after you're "on par" with your competitions (ie: another 'talented' people), then that's where hard work start matters.
    but in order to get 'there' (ie: hard work), the starting point is whether the person has the talent , or not, is it?
    In order to be outstanding at something, I think you need to possess the innate capability for it (talent). I will never become an NBA star no matter how much hard work I put into it. So yes, talent does get you on par with the others, but without hard work you will never stand out- because they will be working hard as well.

    Ultimately it depends on your goal. If you desire to be at the top, then you need both talent and hard work, and I would submit that both are equally necessary and important. However, if you just desire to be towards the middle of the pack, then talent alone or hard work alone would suffice.

    And I don't believe in luck.

  5. #15
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Ultimately it depends on your goal. If you desire to be at the top, then you need both talent and hard work, and I would submit that both are equally necessary and important. However, if you just desire to be towards the middle of the pack, then talent alone or hard work alone would suffice.
    I totally agree. With talent and hard work, you'll never fall. I know it's a set phrase, but it's still true: if you're willing to pay the price to reach your goal, you will reach it. You just have to know what sacrifices are you willing to make.

  6. #16
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niki View Post
    so doesn't this mean talent would come first, then afterwards, after you're "on par" with your competitions (ie: another 'talented' people), then that's where hard work start matters.
    but in order to get 'there' (ie: hard work), the starting point is whether the person has the talent , or not, is it?

    but then music industry is sometimes (or often) different matter, and market is hard to predict.. just like that Britney Spears example..
    although i'd argue that Christina aguilerra is talented, even more talented than Britney, and she can have SAME success as Britney,..so in the end yes: talent DOES matter , in fact, it's very important ?
    but it seems this doesn't apply to Britney's case..
    i think in her case, there comes another factor: "charisma" , or "image" ? so she can get succesful like right now?
    it's getting a bit complicated here
    Well it depends on what you mean by "talent". For a pop singer I consider being good looking to be part of "talent" because it affects how successful you will be. I simply define "talent" as natural attributes that contribute to success and attractiveness is part of that. Obviously voice is another important component too, but it's not the only one.

    An example of this that comes to mind is Faith Hill. She originally had a fairly plain look. (I personally thought she was pretty, but she definitely wasn't going for mainstream sex appeal.) After a while she went for a sexier look, and her albulm sales skyrocketed.

    It's true that talent is innate, however the lack of talent can be compensated for by hardwork.
    No, this is simply untrue. I can practice singing every day for years, and I will still not have as good a voice as Christina Aguilera. Work and experience are enhancements to talent, but they are not replacements. Likewise education is only an enhancement to talent.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
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    In things like voice and looks, which require a certain physical status, it'd be difficult to compensate talent for hard work.
    However, talent for music has actually been proven to be through practice, repetition, and learning. As an artist, I'd say the same goes with drawing; anyone can do it, but it takes a lot of dedication and hard work. So in ability, hardwork could definitely pay off.

  8. #18
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Talent, hard work. There is no such thing as luck.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #19

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    Replace luck with "circumstantial (in)opportunity"? Just an idea.

    I suppose the crux of the issue is that depending on who you are, talent, hardwork, "luck", or any variable combination of the three will result in various outcomes for different people and that is "luck" in itself.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  10. #20
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    No, this is simply untrue. I can practice singing every day for years, and I will still not have as good a voice as Christina Aguilera. Work and experience are enhancements to talent, but they are not replacements. Likewise education is only an enhancement to talent.
    I admit that what you've said is true. However having an exceptionally good voice is not a requirement to becoming a pop star. My working criteria was being "good enough" to succeed not being the best. Talent certainly is needed if you want to be top dog.

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