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  1. #51
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    yea I know what you're saying really I do... And I have been guilty of more than once falling ino the awful trap of trying to 'open the others mind' to be honest in any connection (be it friendship, relationship,) the biggest problem for me is when the other Regardless of their types as I have had the problem with fellow ENFPs) denies the spirit.. I can only give half of myself from there on in...
    ... couldn't drag me away

    Željko Ražnatovic: argus
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Well they may well answer your logistical prayers. But I think the ENFP "requires" someone who understands them on a different level than the ISTJ usually will, hence I don't recommend the match for the long term.

    But that's just my cold, rational analysis.
    Yeah, but that all boils down to maturity. The ENFP that still need someone to "understand" them on a different level is an ENFP that actually needs to grow and learn to understand themselves. They are just trying to use their natural skills in order to use the other person as a mirror.

    It's a phase most of us grow out of. That's also usually the point where we stop apologizing for everything.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chase View Post
    Yeah, but that all boils down to maturity. The ENFP that still need someone to "understand" them on a different level is an ENFP that actually needs to grow and learn to understand themselves. They are just trying to use their natural skills in order to use the other person as a mirror.
    Maturity, you say? I know not this word.

    But really. You would be hard-pressed to convince me it's not rational to desire to be rather well understood by one's most intimate companions. To require it may not be essential for satisfaction in life, as there are other sources of such, but it does have merit.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Maturity, you say? I know not this word.

    But really. You would be hard-pressed to convince me it's not rational to desire to be rather well understood by one's most intimate companions. To require it may not be essential for satisfaction in life, as there are other sources of such, but it does have merit.
    I agree with you that it's completely rational to desire to be rather well understood by one's most intimate companions, which I believe is something that ISTJ's can do. But I've seen ENFP's make the mistake of needing to be COMPLETELY understood by their mates, which is something the ISTJ cannot do. If an ENFP want to be completely understood, they should date a fellow ENFP. I've done that. Twice. They did not end well. But I sure learned a lot. For instance, I learned that I don't ever want to be that well understood again. Give me a little mystery please.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chase View Post
    I agree with you that it's completely rational to desire to be rather well understood by one's most intimate companions, which I believe is something that ISTJ's can do. But I've seen ENFP's make the mistake of needing to be COMPLETELY understood by their mates, which is something the ISTJ cannot do. If an ENFP want to be completely understood, they should date a fellow ENFP. I've done that. Twice. They did not end well. But I sure learned a lot.
    NTs are capable of understanding ENFPs. Take me, for example. By understanding, I don't mean behaving similarly or agreeing on everything.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Well, hopefully. I mean there's plenty that could be gleaned from this, but only if you're willing to put in effort. Never mind...
    The original poster was an INFJ. She'll get plenty from this. If she was an ESFP, she'd be screwed.

    Then again, I highly doubt and ESFP would have posted that question here in the first place.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    NTs are capable of understanding ENFPs. Take me, for example. By understanding, I don't mean behaving similarly or agreeing on everything.
    ISTJ's can also understand ENFP's. The difference is really communication styles. The NT and the NF can spend hours talking about all of the nuance and theory of it... (usually over a couple rounds of beer because beer makes N's brain's work better). They'll pour over every detail, point out flaws, get quite drunk... and then start it all over again the next time they met up.

    To have the same conversation with an NF, alcohol would still be involved though we would spend hours talking about how it applies to our lives, to society, to our friends, spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically, get quite drunk... and then start it all over again the next time they met up.

    If I wanted to have the same conversation with an SJ, it would probably be while doing something previously scheduled, often including a chore (shopping, cleaning, etc.) and would be over in about 30 minutes once we have decided what it means to our society and/or family. Everyone would be sober, things would have gotten accomplished, and somehow we feel we bonded.

    For sobriety's sake, I recommend the ENFP have an SJ spouse... but then maintain a good stock of NT and NF friends for the long winded communication needs.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chase View Post
    ISTJ's can also understand ENFP's. The difference is really communication styles....
    I hate to get Technical, but it seems like what you're actually describing is hanging out together, not understanding how someone functions, mentally.

    In that regard, I haven't met an ISTJ who demonstrated a personal grasp on the subject of psychological differences in the way many NTs have. They can read the books, and get the point, but they couldn't have written the books, going on their personal observations and studies.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I hate to get Technical, but it seems like what you're actually describing is hanging out together, not understanding how someone functions, mentally.

    In that regard, I haven't met an ISTJ who demonstrated a personal grasp on the subject of psychological differences in the way many NTs have. They can read the books, and get the point, but they couldn't have written the books, going on their personal observations and studies.
    Of course I'm describing how we hang out, I'm an ENFP. As an NF, I'm focused on the relationship aspect of it. But how we hang out is driven by how we communicate which is driven by how we function mentally.

    Could the ISTJ have written the book? Absolutely. The big question is *if* they would have written the book. And the answer is probably not unless they saw that the resources that would need to be invested in it were worth it.

    ISTJ's are completely capable of grasping psychological differences and will utilize it if they decide it is a helpful tool. They just don't obsess about it the same way that NT's (in their pursuit of understanding the system) and NF's (in their pursuit of understanding humanity) do.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chase View Post
    Could the ISTJ have written the book? Absolutely.
    Herein may lie our fundamental disagreement. To clarify though, what I said was that they couldn't write the book based on their own observations. ISTJs excel at condensing and relaying studies which are already out there, however. We have an ISTJ MBTI author on our very forum, after all.

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