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Thread: the morale NT

  1. #1
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Default the morale NT

    The following things are part of a question that somewhat constantly bugged me for the last few months. I opened a lot of threads about it and I constantly asked within threads for it. But I really never got an answer.

    My girlfriend is a eneagram six and therefore, high morale is to be expected. I myself do not have a hint, what this is supposed to mean. So, now we have the obvious stated.

    Now lets face facts: I lack morale that's true, I think that answering your phone while you perform cuni lingus on a random girl is totally awesome. But on the other hand, I love. And when I do love, I go to great lengths for it. To insanely great lengths.

    Now the question is, what defines the morale NT ? One thing is sure, the answer is not morale.

    I came to think now about this topic, for like aeons of time. It's like you have the facts there but you dont know why they are. Something like the double slit experiment. When the electron does behave like a wave and does behave like a solid. It just seems to depend on how you look at it, but in the end you know that cant be the truth. An observer does not change things, because like it is with atoms, it is with every human. Everybody has got his own agenda and an observer wont change this. So, how does it come that NT do have morale, even NF think otherwise ?!

    I wont lie to you. My girlfriend thinks I am the world's greatest fartass there is. She trusts me like 1 centimeter what is *wild guess here* less than an inch. I thought when I first met her that if I make the littlest of mistake, she will send me to hell.

    But I was wrong. I did a hundred of mistakes. No big mistakes, like cheating on her, but little ones, her morale cant justify. But I am still not in hell.

    That means her morale exists but there is something profound to it her morale or she herself can not grasp.

    May it be for the sake of definition, we call it love. And what is that love thing. Why does it make a rational guy, morally.

    I have came to think and I think I said that already (by now you probably figured I dont have an answer).

    I have came to think that I think NT's do tick different. That means they are not green apples, they are red apples. That means the problem is a fundamental flaw that comes with the making.

    It would be absolutely logical to say, "why should I be not morale to my girlfriend, if I do love her ?", but that would not explain love. And I think, there is something inherent within the NT nature, I havent grasped myself fully yet. Something unique. Something that is capable of truly loving.

    And I think my girlfriend has figured that out.

    I just can say, I envy her for that.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #2
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    I think when a person meets another and loves eachother unconditionally, they start having consensus and eventually change eachother. Sorry cant come with any better.

    Is she INFJ? I've seen this effect when I've met ENTP/ESTP women.

  3. #3
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    You do not have any kind of personal code of ethics or you do not consistently follow your own ethical code or your ethical code does not match hers?

    I'm guessing there can be varying levels of conscientiousness within all types. My husband, an NT, is more conscientious than I am in many ways. I admire that immensely and it also makes me feel secure. Our ethical codes match fairly well, but are different enough that we think the other person is pretty amazing. For us, it plays out in that I'm usually more compassionate and he is more consistent.

    I guess unconditional love is okay, but relationships between anyone but a parent and a young child is, and (IMO) ought to be, conditional and, if at all possible, fairly equal.

    To the details: your girl probably has deal breakers. She may not like everything you do, but as long as you don't cross one of the biggies or carelessly and habitually do things she isn't okay with, you're probably in the clear.

    That's how I operate, at least. No cheating, no abuse of any kind, no substance abuse, work full-time if you're physically able (unless at some point we don't need the money. Riiiiiiiiight) and bring the money home for the family and I'm not going anywhere. Start messing up on that stuff and I'm probably better off single.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lorkan View Post
    I think when a person meets another and loves eachother unconditionally, they start having consensus and eventually change eachother. Sorry cant come with any better.

    Is she INFJ? I've seen this effect when I've met ENTP/ESTP women.
    Yes she is and that eventually could be the conclusion to my long search of definition of a NT morality.

    In combination with what cafe said:

    Our ethical codes match fairly well, but are different enough that we think the other person is pretty amazing. For us, it plays out in that I'm usually more compassionate and he is more consistent.
    Maybe consistence and conscientiousness would be the two main points that play a role within NT morality. It's true that there is a great deal of consensus between an INFJ/ENTP meeting and I can say that I experienced a huge growth in things related to a relationship, I never violated before but I havent thought of before also.

    Like for example, I pick a wild example out of the blue now, she has a great deal of jealousy, when it comes to other woman, but does need her own space and likes to be flirted to even if she does not provoke it. That's the brutal logic of liking something for oneself, but on the other hand denieing it to your partner. I myself do like that. I have the most strong feeling to trust her, I have ever had in life about a person. She does not flirt, she will end the flirt before it starts. The very act of another guy wanting to flirt with her, suffices.

    I on the other hand, when being in a relationship, become like a woman-hater. That means most of the times woman do not even approach me, because they have the impression this guy is not right in the brain. I dont know why that is so and it is probably not the right way, but it fits her brutal expectation of logic. And I am fine with it aswell.

    It's probably more like an avoiding strategy by myself. While the J personality would ask, how can a p be trusted, if he is holding his options open ? That would be the answer: he holds his options open, but he avoids to expand them on certain levels.

    I myself was cheated on in a four year long relationship. So I am a marked child there. By the time it happened she hadnt got much of a chance to go far with the cheating, because I got a hunch about things and intervened, breaking a nose and a arm in the process + destroying several garden furniture. Wasnt one of my greatest moments but at least I vented unecessary emotions in the process .

    The thing is that the answer to the NT morality probably lies in the difference in compassion and conscientiousness. I do see now that the development is most probable only possible, if the NT is in an engagement with a NF, because otherwise he wouldnt notice those things. In that engagement then, he has the ability to learn about things in life that are important to the other, but which are natural to him. Call it logical to him.

    If this process of a new perception of a way on looking at things is not to be made for the NT, it is probable that he will abandon things that once were natural to him, because he does not score with his way of doing things. That means he could change directions and loose track of concientiousness because he does not get the proper results to his actions, may it be due to his environment being dumb or other people treating him unfairly.

    That's kinda intresting though and it would confirm my theory that when my INFJ calls me a manipulator, she only speaks the half truth, because she is one aswell .

    That means you have the NT with logical building blocks of conscientiousness floating around within his brain, but it needs a catalyst that will bring the block in place; so the NT needs to have an answer about right and wrong, before he/she starts putting them in place in the knowledge that these are the keys to him feeling good.

    Kinda weird. But it does make sense.

    Even, if that attitude comes of as a p thing, when you first read it, I think it is applicable to all NT's. If you take for example the typical INTJ Mastermind, who hasnt actively searched in the world for the right answers, several building blocks can be dismissed over time and the new priorities could be world domination reached by immorale means. Ok I'm exaggerating. But I think the message is clear.

    When I compare my past, to my girlfriends past, I have to say that if I lived her life, I would be a different person. Nevertheless despite all the shit she had gone through her life, her morale survived like a clean and shiny armor. There was a lot of dirt on it, but I am polishing and there is absolutely no rust.

    And that's the thing. Like morality was inborn to her. Something a NT would not have.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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