[MBTI General] estj/infj relationships

[fleurdujour]

Yes.

Which would make Socionics Ni (INFP) more like MBTI INFP, not INFJ, no? I think it is really hard to compare though or make any definitive answers because Socionics seems much more vague than MBTI and because the functions are defined differently (Ni in Socionics does not necessarily mean the same thing as Ni in MBTI).

 

[redacted]

Ugh, if these terms mean different things (which I actually suspect they don't, I would bet it's just poorly written descriptions), they should at least use different words/letters.

The definitions are a mess.

 

[EJCC]

What a cool thread. Kind of went off on a tangent, though (albeit a helpful one). Let's revive it! On to the OP:

As Chris pointed out in his first post on this thread, there's a lot of potential for INFJ-ESTJ relationships. But as Evan pointed out, it depends on the maturity of both parties. I know that unbalanced ESTJs can be the worst sorts of people, but unbalanced INFJs can be annoying too (one example being my INFJ friend with badly developed J, who sometimes makes no sense at all to me... but that probably goes back to the maturity thing as well, like Evan said).

Now, I've never met an INFJ I didn't like. I feel like our types really balance each other out. For instance, IN GENERAL, ESTJs aren't very good at thinking about the human element of things, while INFJs aren't very good at being impersonal. Each has a skill that the other needs.

 

[Fidelia]

This is an interesting question. I am an INFJ who dated an ESTJ for almost five years. We were a great match in some ways - the J ness helped us and we both liked things to be organized, albeit in different ways. We put on several large events and he looked after the practical concrete organizational details while I looked after the more philosophical and human details (How do we make people feel welcome? What will they need throughout the day?). I enjoyed his outgoingness and easy rapport with people. He was an exceptional host. He was a bit of an external brain for things like phone numbers, dates I needed to remember, which day to cancel my phone and insurance for summer holidays, etc. He was also decisive which I only selectively am. He was good at a wide variety of things (fixing things, IT skills, sports, art, etc) and I liked his curiosity about how things work. He liked travelling like me, and we travelled compatibly - easygoing without meandering too much.

I think in this pairing the INFJ should face it at the beginning that they will have to do most of the adjusting and also be prepared to let the ESTJ take control most of the time unless they decide to delegate it to the INFJ (still their call). They also will have to face that their opinions will not be met with understanding immediately and not to react emotionally. They will need to talk sooner rather than waiting for things to bubble over and try to be as straightforward as possible. They also need to make sure that the ESTJ's quick opinions do not keep them from having their own circle of friends or that they do not feel run over by the ESTJ's bluntness.

The ESTJ may have to realize that INFJ's need to know they are valued by being a priority in their ESTJ's time and having their contributions and efforts to the relationship recognized and valued aloud. Sometimes the ESTJ wants recognition for their efforts but goes about it by protesting going to events, helping the INFJ with things they can't do on their own, complaining about how much hardship they have been through, which makes the INFJ feel beholden and unsupported. The ESTJ doesn't really mean half of what they say and was always planning to do it all along, but just wants recognition. The INFJ takes what they say very literally and to heart and becomes resentful because they feel that they support the ESTJ very strongly in everything they do. Because the ESTJ isn't accustomed to expressing emotions as much, they may not even acknowledge thank yous that the INFJ gives or their efforts to make appreciation felt which discourages the INFJ and makes them quit trying. INFJs have an unsatiable need for resolution after conflict, whereas ESTJ's are likely to go the route of letting the problem just wear off. This causes a lot of trouble between them and the ESTJ gets frustrated and confused by the ensuing emotion after several issues are left unresolved.

Sometimes ESTJs don't fight fair and if they feel criticized (even if it is a valid, reoccuring issue), they will suddenly lash back so as to silence the other person, even if they are not really all that bothered by the thing they bring up. There is a sense of competitiveness that they will need to curb if they want a happy NF as it can come out unkindly.

ESTJs also seem to go into their shell when they are under stress (and sometimes gets downright nasty or inconsiderate) and this sends INFJs into a tailspin of uncertainty. They become clingier which annoys the ESTJ who is trying to work out the problem alone. They can't understand why the INFJ would wonder whether the ESTJ still loves them! They already told them that and they are still in the relationship! INFJs generally will back off much better if they know what is going on in the other person's head. (Eg. I've got this problem to get sorted out... The nicest thing you could do to help me is to give me some time alone so I can get it figured out in my own head. There's no problem between us. Let's spend some time together at such and such a time. Thanks so much for helping me this way.) Sometimes under stress they just spend more and more time with people who don't really matter which crushes the INFJ who has been waiting and trying to be patient and nice. Then they become nasty themselves!!

Like the others said, it takes two mature parties and preferably some self-awareness of possible pitfalls.

 

[the state i am in]

maybe as co-workers, but you'll still be frustrated on the infj end. a bit of fondness is possible, but more? seems unreasonable and unrealistic (w/o ignoring all infj needs (let alone wants)).

 

[4375]

I am an ESTJ and dating an INFJ. We have dated for 5 months now. What I really like about the relationship is:
A. She doesn't play games
B. She is very considerate
C. She takes her life very seriously, but is not afraid to have fun.
D. She feels very deeply about things (sometimes it is a bad thing)
E. She legitamitely cares about people
F. She is loyal to her friends, children and me.

Some things I have a hard time understanding
A: When negative things happen in her life, she pulls away and internalizes things.
B: She gets deeply hurt when any one critizes her.
C: Sometimes she has a hard time telling me or anyone how she is feeling.
D: She puts high expectations on herself, which are close to unattainable at times and gets disappointed when she can't reach them.
E: She gets really upset with herself when she makes mistakes.



What I have learned in our relationship:
A: I never critisize her. I encourage her first and then express my concerns.
B: If I am upset with her I never yell. I just tell her calmly I am upset and tell her why.
C: When she is going through a hard time. I tell her I love her, I am here for her when she needs me and give her some space to understand how she feels. Eventually she will come and talk to me. When she does I tell her all the good things about her and try to get her focused on those.

With my experience, INFJ's can come across needy but they really aren't. They just have really deep feelings that can get hurt and tend to take things really personally.
I have to put aside my tendencies to want to fix the problem and just listen. It can take a little while for an INFJ feel they can trust you to express themselves. As this realtionship moves on it has its bumps, but so far it has been better and better as we work through the relationship together.

 

[BlackCat]

I am an ESTJ and dating an INFJ. We have dated for 5 months now. What I really like about the relationship is:
A. She doesn't play games
B. She is very considerate
C. She takes her life very seriously, but is not afraid to have fun.
D. She feels very deeply about things (sometimes it is a bad thing)
E. She legitimately cares about people
F. She is loyal to her friends, children and me.

Some things I have a hard time understanding
A: When negative things happen in her life, she pulls away and internalizes things.
B: She gets deeply hurt when any one criticizes her.
C: Sometimes she has a hard time telling me or anyone how she is feeling.
D: She puts high expectations on herself, which are close to unattainable at times and gets disappointed when she can't reach them.
E: She gets really upset with herself when she makes mistakes.



What I have learned in our relationship:
A: I never criticize her. I encourage her first and then express my concerns.
B: If I am upset with her I never yell. I just tell her calmly I am upset and tell her why.
C: When she is going through a hard time. I tell her I love her, I am here for her when she needs me and give her some space to understand how she feels. Eventually she will come and talk to me. When she does I tell her all the good things about her and try to get her focused on those.

With my experience, INFJ's can come across needy but they really aren't. They just have really deep feelings that can get hurt and tend to take things really personally.
I have to put aside my tendencies to want to fix the problem and just listen. It can take a little while for an INFJ feel they can trust you to express themselves. As this relationship moves on it has its bumps, but so far it has been better and better as we work through the relationship together.

You sound like a great significant other. I just felt like adding that in.

 

[4375]

Haha thanks. I try.

 

[Conus]

I have no problem with someone being blunt. I just don't like feeling that someone is trying to control me and herd me around like cattle. And the ESTJs I know tend to do this.

So true. I'm in a relationship with an ESTJ and find she has many good qualities. But I so recognize that cattle-feeling! For instance, whenever I happen to stand in her way, she has a habit of pushing two fingers in my side, like she does with her family's dog, instead of asking me to step aside. Like I was some speechless animal! Can't tell you how offended I was by this in the beginning.

 

[EJCC]

What a cool thread. Kind of went off on a tangent, though (albeit a helpful one). Let's revive it! On to the OP:

As Chris pointed out in his first post on this thread, there's a lot of potential for INFJ-ESTJ relationships. But as Evan pointed out, it depends on the maturity of both parties. I know that unbalanced ESTJs can be the worst sorts of people, but unbalanced INFJs can be annoying too (one example being my INFJ friend with badly developed J, who sometimes makes no sense at all to me... but that probably goes back to the maturity thing as well, like Evan said).

Now, I've never met an INFJ I didn't like. I feel like our types really balance each other out. For instance, IN GENERAL, ESTJs aren't very good at thinking about the human element of things, while INFJs aren't very good at being impersonal. Each has a skill that the other needs.

^ I agree with my 18-year-old self!

So true. I'm in a relationship with an ESTJ and find she has many good qualities. But I so recognize that cattle-feeling!

It's so incredibly hard to not do that. I used to try not to do that, and then I realized that there's really no way around it, because 1) it's in my nature, and 2) "herding" is often both necessary and important.

For instance, whenever I happen to stand in her way, she has a habit of pushing two fingers in my side, like she does with her family's dog, instead of asking me to step aside. Like I was some speechless animal! Can't tell you how offended I was by this in the beginning.

Damn, that's obnoxious. Have you told her how much that bothers you?