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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanillaCat View Post
    I've known two ENFJs who are known as "Fake."

    I got to see what's really inside
    They're quite interesting and amazing.
    Hi there,


    why d'ya think they're known as fake? how is there 'persona' different from their real selves...and why do you think this side remains 'hidden' so to speak?



    thanks you!!

  2. #42
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I was going to answer 'Fe Primary'.

    One aspect of Fe that people see is the 'consummate host/ess' They are on track to think about how to make you feel comfortable, make the group feel comfortable, etc. So, I can see how some people would read that as 'fake' -- but it's a role being filled and in order to be a moderator or host, you do have to keep a distance in a way. And an authentic desire to 'take care' of people/the group in a way.

    I guess it's similar to that archetypal INTX detachment? In a role as an analyzer, you also need to keep an (emotional) distance to get the job done. If you're just trying to figure out a problem and solution in terms of X, Y, Z, emotional involvement isn't necessary and would in fact impede you.

    I guess if you think of it more in terms of 'what group role is this person fulfilling', which you CAN do with MBTIc, it makes it easier to see the 'negatives' that may associated with people and how it's related to their 'plusses'.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I was going to answer 'Fe Primary'.

    One aspect of Fe that people see is the 'consummate host/ess' They are on track to think about how to make you feel comfortable, make the group feel comfortable, etc. So, I can see how some people would read that as 'fake' -- but it's a role being filled and in order to be a moderator or host, you do have to keep a distance in a way. And an authentic desire to 'take care' of people/the group in a way.

    I guess it's similar to that archetypal INTX detachment? In a role as an analyzer, you also need to keep an (emotional) distance to get the job done. If you're just trying to figure out a problem and solution in terms of X, Y, Z, emotional involvement isn't necessary and would in fact impede you.

    I guess if you think of it more in terms of 'what group role is this person fulfilling', which you CAN do with MBTIc, it makes it easier to see the 'negatives' that may associated with people and how it's related to their 'plusses'.

    I think what you're sayingn makes perfect sense, except I don't really understand the last paragraph? Can you please expand on it?

  4. #44
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    ...are enfjs renowned for being a more 'reserved' type of extrovert?
    Yep.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  5. #45
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    ENFJs act like they love everybody.
    I most certainly do not act like I love everybody.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  6. #46
    Member Sunshine8's Avatar
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    Default What a shame

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yeah that's how I felt about the priest eventually: self-righteous, aloof and cold, which was funny cos in the early days of meeting each other he said I was that way and went on at me about opening up and trusting people and reaching out and stuff, yet it took me a while to realize he never did this himself.

    It's really hard, I think this is what's led me to feeling like I just have an "allergy" to NFJ's generally... it's this thing where their behaviour towards me seems to suggest these negative things, yet I'm conscious that I don't really know anything about them, so I try to avoid judging them based on mere speculative interpretation of their behaviour and closed-ness, and instead try to find out what the REAL reason is... but you can imagine this isn't really possible where there seems no way to get the person to open up and actually talk about themselves, they'll only express their own thoughts and opinions when you get them actually angry.

    That's what it took in the end, I had to really lay into him with a really mean rant that I knew was unjustified and unreasonable but I was just hoping to push his buttons enough to just find out WTF was behind it all... but whilst I would've seen this as the beginning of the solution, his angry/upset reaction, he saw it as curtains for any possibility of friendship between us.

    It felt to me like he was guaging me for worthiness to be trusted with his thoughts and stuff, which is fair enough in the beginning but after 2 years you start thinking, geez who does he think he is? what does it take for him to think someone's worthy if working alongside, always supporting him, trusting him with MY stuff implicitly... if none of that's good enough, what am I supposed to do? And then when I felt like he'd pushed me to the point of virtually begging him to just give me SOMETHING to go on, as I was by that point feeling so insecure and like he must think I'm some total idiot and laugh about me with his wife after I've gone home etc, rather than read that as it was, my last ditch desperate attempt to just CONNECT with him, he just took it as a big attack and final proof that I would never be "worthy" of his friendship.

    It's gone that way for me with almost every NFJ I've known and it totally cuts me up every time, so that's why I now use the "allergy" thing and avoid them if I can. It's really sad though cos I do like them... I just have better things to do that stand there for years holding out my hand waiting for it to be taken.
    What a shame that things went so badly. It sounds as though you both ended up feeling very hurt.

    OK, so how I would read this as an ENFJ:

    I would never invite someone into my house if I didn't like them or respect them, so I think you can assume that he wouldn't be laughing at you behind your back or anything like that.

    The question I would ask is whether in the beginning you sent out any need to be taken care of, which caused your priest to put his own needs way behind yours. Some of the closest people to me do not hear much about my troubles because - and this is VERY significant in understanding ENFJs - I would never, ever want to burden someone who needs help themselves or who is struggling with aspects of their life and self. It doesn't mean I don't care about them, it just means that there are only a few people who I know can cope with my crap and they are the ones I would go to.

    Also, because I am usually cheerful and optimistic (a trait I observe often in ENFJs), and seem to cope with life pretty well, it is VERY unnerving for some people to see me in my 'bleak, angry and cynical' mode. I have observed the effect and people just don't know what to do.

    It really sounds as though for whatever reason your priest is trying to help you and care for you in a fatherly way. And you have to ask yourself, how many fathers depend emotionally on their children - telling them all of their problems? You are dealing with the most idealistic of idealists here - not only is he an ENFJ but he is a priest! It would be, I am sure in his view, highly corrupt behaviour to spill his guts to someone he is supposed to be assisting and teaching.

    If you really want to get close to an ENFJ:

    1) Do stuff with them - sooner or later you will find out more because they are usually very honest people

    2) Don't come across as though you are in need of rescuing because they will just switch onto being your saviour or parent. I am 32 and it has only been in the last year that I have started sharing my concerns and fears with my younger sister - basically because she has often had troubles of her own and she was my 'little sis'!

    3) Really ask yourself whether you can handle the ENFJ shadow. It can be very dark and destructive at times, and if you can't deal with seeing a happy, optimistic soul (that you normally look up to) scraping the gritty and horrific bottom of the emotional swamp (not pretty) then DO NOT GO THERE. Most ENFJs get a feel for who can cope with their dark side and who can't so maybe at this time in your life it should just be about being content and in company.

    I hope this makes some sense. Don't doubt yourself because you don't get the whole picture of an NFJ. Just trust that things will work out in the end and they will. There is nothing like hope and optimism to hook an idealist!

    Sunshine8

    'A diplomat... is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip.'
    - Caskie Stinnett

  7. #47
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine8 View Post
    Nice post! I learned from it. Thanks for sharing.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #48
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Thank you sunshine. I think you've described very well how Fe interacts with Ni.

    Fe is other centered. Other people's happiness is our happiness. Ni is building a representation of the individual by evaluating their behavior. Based on this representation, if the xNFJ predicts sharing of personal information will cause undue distress to the person. He or she will keep quiet.

    Yes, that makes sense.

  9. #49
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    That's weird--the xNFJs in my (real) life are always compulsively confessing things to me. Seriously. Compulsively.
    according to infjorinfp.com,
    Fe is about self-disclosure and Fi is the pussyfooting one, as i have said before.

    "If you're comfortable divulging personal information about yourself (particularly to strangers), you're more likely INFJ. You may not even classify much information about yourself as being "personal" -- depending on the situation, everything is fair game. If, instead, you're inclined to be private and generally tight-lipped about yourself and your personal life, you're more likely INFP "

    "Many people confuse self-disclosure with exposing their ideas. For example, a lot of INFPs enjoy "blogging," where they share speculation with the world about things that are going on.

    Technically, this is not self-disclosure. Self-disclosure is not about speculating or working out implications -- it's about bridging with personal revelations, often revelations that are "concrete." Examples of this might include, "oh look! We both drive a Honda Accord!" or "my mother died last year too." It's especially obvious when we "tell on ourselves," by sharing painful stories about ourselves or revealing mistakes we've made. I notice self-disclosure operating when I talk about getting fired from a job, or share an embarrassing moment I experienced at a party. Last night I encountered a woman in a public toilet who had spilled coffee on her white dress, and I found myself babbling about something similar happening to me as a way to create relationship and eliminate the tension of being strangers."
    I N V I C T U S

  10. #50
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvereX View Post
    according to infjorinfp.com,
    Fe is about self-disclosure and Fi is the pussyfooting one, as i have said before.
    Well from my experiences, NFJs self-disclose only to a selected few. When they do so, they inform them of everything. NFPs tells many people "unimportant" facts about themselves, but when it comes to the details, they tell no one.

    Is that a fair assessment?

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