[Fe] Fe: No cute title...I just don't get it

[wedekit]

Being civil is different than being friendly.

It really depends on how Fe one is getting in these cases. If one is acting friendily while not being open, then it is sending mixed messages out. This is what is so frustrating and confusing to Fi types. It's like the Fe person wants the other person to like them and feel warm and fuzzy towards them but they don't want to give anything of themselves in return.

There's nothing more insulting than having someone be in truth rejecting while they working hard to maintain a friendly exterior. Sort of like someone always ringing the doorbell but running when you come to answer.

It is like if you want to reject someone, then stand up and take the heat, don't hide behind some good guy facade.

Thanks, this really answered the question for me. I definitely understand why this would be frustrating to others. I'm pretty sure my Fe causes me to try my best to be liked by everyone; even by people I don't like.

I wonder if the feeling of "fakeness" you get from someone with primary/secondary Fe is a good indicator of how much they don't like you.

 

[heart]

Thanks, this really answered the question for me. I definitely understand why this would be frustrating to others. I'm pretty sure my Fe causes me to try my best to be liked by everyone; even by people I don't like.

I wonder if the feeling of "fakeness" you get from someone with primary/secondary Fe is a good indicator of how much they don't like you.

Undoubtably. But it would be better if they were merely civil rather than making all their appeals to my feeling nature, trying to win points with me so I'll feel all warm and fuzzy towards them. It grows tiresome having to weed through who really wants to be friendly and who does not. I can live with people not liking me, life is not a big popularity contest for me and I value quality over quanitity. It's the BS that I don't like.

 

[Sunshine]

This is part of what gets Fe labeled as fake, you want to be seen as nice while brushing someone off? Just can't be done without people eventually realizing the fakeness of the action. We can't always be "nice" in life and it's disingenuous to try. jmo.

It's not exclusive to Fe types tho.

 

[Giggly]

It's not exclusive to Fe types tho.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[heart]

It's not exclusive to Fe types tho.

Not speaking of the types as much as the function. ESTP can use Fe as often as ExFJ to smooze (not saying that is all Fe does, just when it is used to smooze is all I am speaking of here. Fi has its own faults).

Fi types (people who have Fi as their feeling function as opposed to strictly Fi doms) can try it but probably won't carry it off as effectively. Fi types fool others more often by just refusing to create conflict rather than by actively using Fe to generate good feelings in others. jmo.

One fools by passivity and one by action. I am not saying Fi types aren't confusing as well, I am merely giving my opinion on Fe as Fi type.

Edit: The motives between Fi and Fe seem a bit different. Fe wants to be liked and thought well of. Fi doesn't want to deal with conflict or disharmony with others. I could be wrong there, but I see in my INFJ husband his strong need to always be seen as "Nice" and "in the right" even when his motives aren't nice. I can tolerate being seen as mean or wrong but I hate facing other's anger and conflicts, but as I get older it's just not even a choice, something in me won't let me be passive anymotre.

 

[Glycerine]

For me, I may come as fake with my Fe when someone annoys me and I feel the need to be nice. I feel really bad if I believe that I have offended someone to the point of guilt-filled stress. Maybe that is just an immature manifestation of my Fe.

Heart, my motivations tend to both of wanting to be nice and avoiding coflict like the plague... I even sometimes do so more than my INFP mom. She will try to get rid of the tension by trying to talk people down but I will just sit there and let the tension pass. My method tends to resolve the situation more efficiently and there usually is no escalation.

 

[heart]

Heart, my motivations tend to both of wanting to be nice and avoiding coflict like the plague... I even sometimes do so more than my INFP mom. She will try to get rid of the tension by trying to talk people down but I will just sit there and let the tension pass. My method tends to resolve the situation more efficiently and there usually is no escalation.

Your mom old enough she's likely got a lot more Te. I know a INFJ whose conflict resolution with family is: Apply Fe like crazy and then avoid them as much as possible. Nothing ever gets solved and family continues to step over boundaries and family also fumes and puzzles why INFJ is so distant. INFJ says cannot face these people with their actions because they don't have capcity to know right from wrong.

I dealt with the same people by finally telling them exactly what had to change or I was breaking contact. They said "We do what we want, when we want, that's just us. We don't care about right and wrong.." So there, they did understand, just don't care. I broke contact guilt-free and breathe easier now! The INFJ still sweating each time phone rings...still gushing Fe like crazy when picks it up and still running away with relief when hangs up.

I think my way was better, I actually asked and got an answer as to why they continued to be disrespectful of boundaries and they got to at least know why I don't warm to them, why they were cut direct. I gave them the chance to at least try to meet me halfway, they got to chose not to do so, but with INFJ they aren't even given a chance to know why the INFJ is distant.

I know there are Fe types who don't avoid conflcts, I am just giving the case where one does use Fe to hide conflicts and to keep on appearing "nice" while really shunning the people they want to view them as "nice."

I don't feel bad for offending people or hurting their feelings, what I feel bad over is if I unfairly hurt them or offended them without just cause.

 

[Thursday]

Edit: The motives between Fi and Fe seem a bit different. Fe wants to be liked and thought well of. Fi doesn't want to deal with conflict or disharmony with others. I could be wrong there, but I see in my INFJ husband his strong need to always be seen as "Nice" and "in the right" even when his motives aren't nice. I can tolerate being seen as mean or wrong but I hate facing other's anger and conflicts, but as I get older it's just not even a choice, something in me won't let me be passive anymotre.

Hellz yeah

Fe = Pityless courtesy
Fi = Neccessary Evil(or being mean because he needs tough love) <--not sure

 

[mlittrell]

last post = vague generality


sorry

 

[edcoaching]

Edit: The motives between Fi and Fe seem a bit different. Fe wants to be liked and thought well of. Fi doesn't want to deal with conflict or disharmony with others. I could be wrong there, but I see in my INFJ husband his strong need to always be seen as "Nice" and "in the right" even when his motives aren't nice. I can tolerate being seen as mean or wrong but I hate facing other's anger and conflicts, but as I get older it's just not even a choice, something in me won't let me be passive anymotre.

I think you're describing what is more accurately immaturity in some people who prefer Fe and a core value in others. I do not need to be liked, but I do like to know that what I am doing is making a difference. When I'm teaching workshops, for example, I need people laughing at my stories and engaging in exercises not to feed my ego but so that I know they're getting something out of the day. That's very different from wanting to be liked. A lot of Fe's I know avoid conflict as you describe for Fi. In fact my Fi sister-in-law once described my Fe sister-in-law, who is ALWAYS upbeat and enthusiastic, "You could serve her shit on a shingle and she'd say it was the best thing she'd ever eaten..."

 

[Thursday]

last post = vague generality


sorry

wtf ?
why apologize when its the truth ? - and an accurate one

 

[INA]

last post = vague generality


sorry

Sort of like when you post "All types can . . .blah blah blah"?

 

[mlittrell]

Sort of like when you post "All types can . . .blah blah blah"?

exactly

 

[heart]

...I do not need to be liked, but I do like to know that what I am doing is making a difference. When I'm teaching workshops, for example, I need people laughing at my stories and engaging in exercises not to feed my ego but so that I know they're getting something out of the day. That's very different from wanting to be liked...

Now I am going to be pain and ask why do they need to laugh at your jokes to get something out of your workshops? This has been a stress for me in some situations with professional people, they have a need to joke and have their jokes laughed at and I may be in serious mood and not all that in the mood to laugh, it has nothing to do with them but they take the social aspects of the situation as a more serious gage of my attention to what they are teaching than what is actually going on in my mind...but actually if I take energy away from my own introspective about what is being taught or discussed to think about and laugh at their jokes and reassure/stroke them in the way they need, then I get distracted from my own train of thought about what is being discussed and it can take time to get back into the groove. It used to drive me crazy in college! Want to just tell the professor stay on track darnit!

I've also had similar experiences with physicans, they want to joke and it's really important to them that I stop and laugh and appreicate their humor but I am trying to focus on the appointment, trying not to be scattered (sometimes very hard for me) and to remember what I need to remember to tell them and to ask so I am getting what I need out of it and they distract me with their Fe needs and while I realize this is just part of being in the human race it can throw me off track sometimes...and I am the one paying 200 bucks for the pleasure!

 

[proteanmix]

heart, I'd take it as more of a feedback thing.

Say I'm a teacher and I need some indicators that my students are understanding what's being taught. If a kid's sleep that's an indicator she's probably not listening. If a kid is scribbling in their notepad, they may or not be listening. I'm not going to say they're not engaged because they may be but it's not clear if they are. If a kid is focused and is engaging with me by asking questions or nodding in agreement that's giving me feedback. If I can gauge how a person is reacting to me then I know if I need to readjust what I'm saying or how I'm behaving. If I have no feedback (and can take a multitude of forms) I can't tell if I'm communicating well or I'm being understood.

If I get no signals from a person whatsoever I'm effectively blind. I'd really like to know of how people are able to communicate with others without some sort of feedback. What edcoaching described was a very Fe way of gaining feedback, although I'm sure other types use those sort of indicators as well.

 

[heart]

heart, I'd take it as more of a feedback thing.

Say I'm a teacher and I need some indicators that my students are understanding what's being taught. If a kid's sleep that's an indicator she's probably not listening. If a kid is scribbling in their notepad, they may or not be listening. I'm not going to say they're not engaged because they may be but it's not clear if they are. If a kid is focused and is engaging with me by asking questions or nodding in agreement that's giving me feedback. If I can gauge how a person is reacting to me then I know if I need to readjust what I'm saying or how I'm behaving. If I have no feedback (and can take a multitude of forms) I can't tell if I'm communicating well or I'm being understood.

If I get no signals from a person whatsoever I'm effectively blind. I'd really like to know of how people are able to communicate with others without some sort of feedback. What edcoaching described was a very Fe way of gaining feedback, although I'm sure other types use those sort of indicators as well.

Protean I do realize that these are very valid concepts as far as gaging attention for some people, I am just expressing my own experience with finding it distracting for myself when I have been a target of it. Yes, Te feedbacks can be distracting as well.

If a student is taking notes and getting good grades, why isn't this feedback enough? If I focus on taking good notes and categorizing information in my own mind, I highly unlikely to be nodding or laughing or whatever. I can't take good notes or pay attention to the material if it is demanded of me that I be giving social feedback. I can't do both adequately. I caught hell at times in school over this.

I am far more likely to think things over before coming to any questions to ask. Like would study in the evening alone with total concentration and then come up with questions that I would go and ask the next day. It doesn't mean I am not paying attention or not taking things seriously.

Isn't it up to the individual person in the class to pay attention to begin with?

 

[Simplexity]

Protean I do realize that these are very valid concepts as far as gaging attention for some people, I am just expressing my own experience with finding it distracting for myself when I have been a target of it. Yes, Te feedbacks can be distracting as well.

If a student is taking notes and getting good grades, why isn't this feedback enough? If I focus on taking good notes and categorizing information in my own mind, I highly unlikely to be nodding or laughing or whatever. I can't take good notes or pay attention to the material if it is demanded of me that I be giving social feedback. I can't do both adequately. I caught hell at times in school over this.

I am far more likely to think things over before coming to any questions to ask. Like would study in the evening alone with total concentration and then come up with questions that I would go and ask the next day. It doesn't mean I am not paying attention or not taking things seriously.

Isn't it up to the individual person in the class to pay attention to begin with?

Thus is the issue with Feelings.

Thats why I say you should all strive to be a cold hearted insensitive T who doesn't register or care for those little signs of emotions.

It would make the world a more stable place on a personal level. Better I'm not so sure....

 

[heart]

Thus is the issue with Feelings.

Thats why I say you should all strive to be a cold hearted insensitive T who doesn't register or care for those little signs of emotions.

It would make the world a more stable place on a personal level. Better I'm not so sure....

Te does it too!

I had one math professor who did it and ugh. Math is not easy for me and I was always concentrating hard. He stops lecturing, looks at me pointedly and I don't notice and until everyone is laughing and then I note that he's staring right at me and finally I ask what and

he says "Are you even paying attention?"

and I say yes, why do you ask?

and he says "Your expression says you find me very boring, do you?"

and I say "No," and I am confused and my heart is pounding because everyone is staring

and he laughs, sardonically and says "Oh, well then may I continue then?"

I say "yes" what else can one say? My mind is totally blown and I just want to disappear. then he says "Oh well thank you then."

I suppose he looked at me and expected me to nod back or something and I was concentrating hard on the subject matter and missed his cue.

 

[proteanmix]

Protean I do realize that these are very valid concepts as far as gaging attention for some people, I am just expressing my own experience with finding it distracting for myself when I have been a target of it. Yes, Te feedbacks can be distracting as well.

If a student is taking notes and getting good grades, why isn't this feedback enough? If I focus on taking good notes and categorizing information in my own mind, I highly unlikely to be nodding or laughing or whatever. I can't take good notes or pay attention to the material if it is demanded of me that I be giving social feedback. I can't do both adequately. I caught hell at times in school over this.

I am far more likely to think things over before coming to any questions to ask. Like would study in the evening alone with total concentration and then come up with questions that I would go and ask the next day. It doesn't mean I am not paying attention or not taking things seriously.

Isn't it up to the individual person in the class to pay attention to begin with?

Yeah, hopefully that's their personal investment but not in the era of standardized testing!

I used the school example because it was the most applicable thing I could think of at the moment to demonstrate Fe . I wasn't talking about students and how they learn but answering your question of "why do they need to laugh at your jokes to get something out of your workshops?" I don't mean to speak for edcoaching but I can imagine how the laughing at jokes is a signal to her (and it would be for me also) that people understand her, that she may/may not have to re-explain a concept, that she is communicating clearly. There are other ways to get feedback than this, but I suppose she was looking for more immediate feedback.

But since you asked, teaching is the type of field that needs more immediate feedback than grades. I wouldn't want a teacher to ignore the puzzled look on my face (puzzled look being a feedback) when I'm learning calculus and let my failing grade be the only indicator of if I'm learning or not. The teacher can outright ask "Does everyone understand this?" or she can look for clues while she's teaching to indicate if she's being understood or not.

 

[Simplexity]

Te does it too!

I had one math professor who did it and ugh. Math is not easy for me and I was always concentrating hard. He stops lecturing, looks at me pointedly and I don't notice and until everyone is laughing and then I note that he's staring right at me and finally I ask what and

he says "Are you even paying attention?"

and I say yes, why do you ask?

and he says "Your expression says you find me very boring, do you?"

and I say "No," and I am confused and my heart is pounding because everyone is staring

and he laughs, sardonically and says "Oh, well then may I continue then?"

I say "yes" what else can one say? My mind is totally blown and I just want to disappear. then he says "Oh well thank you then."

I suppose he looked at me and expected me to nod back or something and I was concentrating hard on the subject matter and missed his cue.

I think its more of a need for "homeostasis" when its an extraverted function I would sense that you need collective agreement in order for your own well being. Good point about Te, I piss of my dad endlessy when I don't abide by his need for cooperation with things, Same with my mom and Fe. I would assume in order to feel "right" you need to see a sort of group consenses when you have an extraverted function like that, you are probably to intune with it to not notice these things.