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[Fe] Fe: No cute title...I just don't get it

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
What, is the ENTP offended?

Let me put it this way.

I've seen an extreme number of P types and even TJs who can't 'get' Fe. For what it looks like to them, you look no further than the beginning of The Shining and for how it sounds to other, just pick up The Catcher in the Rye.

This is not necessarily the case. The description of sounding like an 'emotional compromise' makes it even worse. As to their actual sincerity, you have to silence your knee-jerk reaction and have to look at the person himself. Often, they are quite sincere individuals -- however, they are only human, and may use the function for gains, as would anybody using any other of their main functions.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Are you...
I can't believe you asked that.
Surely that must be a joke of a question, though I'm not sure where the humor comes in.

I'm furious at the ridiculous bullshit being passed around as Type knowledge.
CC's ridiculous thread, the "let's rethink J/P" and pretty much every other type thread that's come along... ever.

Read a damned book, then you'll know whether "INTP is more likely to spend 15 hrs in front of the computer than ESFP?" or not.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Nocapszy, why don't you just chill. Is the carnage in the Fi thread not enough to keep you occupied?
 

mlittrell

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,387
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w1
Nocapszy, why don't you just chill. Is the carnage in the Fi thread not enough to keep you occupied?
the man makes some good points he just goes about saying it the wrong way.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
the man makes some good points he just goes about saying it the wrong way.

Thanks mlittrell. :) You just gave me the fodder to perfectly illustrate my Fe.

I'm going to pick on Nocapszy and a new member Edgar.

Let's address Nocapszy first. I've met the guy and I actually do like him. I thought he was cute. But his immensely pinchable cheeks aside, he most certainly has problems with delivery which then makes his cheeks more punchable than pinchable. Now as mllitrell correctly pointed out, I thought about the truth of his statements as well and agreed with him on that aspect. But what trumped it for me is Nocapszy's history of delivery problems. I guess that's my Fe kicking in. The venom embedded in his posting style is something that I can't shake and neither do other forum members. He can wants to say in a way doesn't get people's hackles up.

Culture and atmosphere moves at different levels and I'll change my behavior depending on where I'm at. I suppose this is where the accusations of Fe being fake comes in because someone might know me in one context, meet me in another and I seem like a different person. Perfect example of that is when I go out with coworker who's never been out with me before. At work I'm all about being professional and maintaining a professional appearance. But when I'm not at work I don't have to do that so I'll chill out measurably. So it'll come as a surprise to people that only know me in a work context to suddenly go to happy hour with me and see me throw down 4 shots of tequila, want to start dancing with everyone who passes by me and see how nasty my mouth gets. I'm pretty assiduous about keeping my nose clean, or you could say appearances, but at this point I really don't care. I don't view the change in my personality as fake, but I'm sure some people will. Can't please everyone! But that's just an aside, so I'll continue with my point.

So here's my Fe working right now. I'm all about making MBTIc as comfortable for as many people as possible. Once again I know you cant please them all, so my means of doing that is by finding an average, or a common denominator (hopefully not the lowest one!). It's like keeping the thermostat set at 75. Some people will find that too cold and other too hot, but most people find it a comfortable temperature. Now if you want to see my Fe in action right now let's look at a member that's caught my eye most recently.

So I'll be reading the forum, my way of checking that the temperature is still comfortable for most people and I'll be looking for spikes or drops, hot zones or cool zones. I notice this guy Edgar. I notice that three times he's referred to women as bitches. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but he's definitely on my radar. I don't know of this is my Fe or not, but I'm just going to say it is. Why am I giving him the benefit of the doubt?

  1. He's a new member
  2. This may be his style of joking
  3. Even though it may upset me a bit that he's called women bitches three times other people seemed not to have commented or be upset about it so I'll stay cool, for now. I bolded for now, because contrary to popular opinion I have no problem disturbing the peace. I hate false peace and that tend to happen when people are being inhibited from speaking their mind. That is not something I'm in favor of. Additionally, my Fe sometimes leads me to believe that just because I feel something, someone else feels it as well. False and overindification is problem that FJs have. This is one thing I'm grateful for the FPs on the forum about, letting people own their own feelings and I need to take ownership of my own. I can't assume people feel the same as I do.

Still, I don't trust my blip, probably because I tend not to trust my introverted judgment. So even though I feel something isn't right within me, I'll look for confirmation from other people that what I'm noticing isn't just my own feelings (low introverted judgment) but something that other people feel as well. So far, no one has said anything but I'm still searching for clues to confirm my feelings. So I'll check out who he's friends with and his visitor messages, or anything to see if there's anything there to prove or disprove my feelings. This is information that's going into a file cabinet in my mind. It may or may not be used, but it's there.

This also works in a positive way. If I find out one of my coworkers likes airplanes I'll store it away and pull it out when it needs to. So when Christmas rolls around this year and we exchange gifts at work I'll get him something that's related to his interests. I talk to people and find out what they value, what they care about, what interests them because it's something that helps me feel connected to them and hopefully that feeling is reciprocated. If it seems like the person doesn't want to reciprocate I leave them alone. No one likes a meddlesome person, myself included.

So I guess this is my Fe at work. It's not "don't forget to say thank you or please or compliment someone." It's not these hard rules that I dare not deviate from. I'm actively searching for information about people and I put that information to use. Each FJ has a different tolerance for disharmony. Some can't handle people disagreeing with each other even if it's done respectfully. Some FJs feel disharmony is reached when people start throwing chairs at each other and then they'll get involved. I can handle a fair amount of disharmony but I won't let it disintegrate into total chaos. And I feel confident enough in my Fe abilities that I can keep it from reaching that point. If I feel that the disharmony is temporary and will lead to greater peace as the end product I'll probably be an instigator myself. And I try to funnel my subconscious desire for chaos out by watching ultraviolent movies and UFC events. :)
 

mlittrell

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,387
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w1
well stated :) ^

a good insight on Fe at work from someone who actually uses Fe.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
^^^ i completely relate to that as well
i also very much like peace but i will often be the first to speak up for someone else if i feel it needs to be done
and am good about extracting the positive truth or intention from words even if it's wrapped up in an offensive style...i don't know if that makes any sense...but yeah...i relate to that totally :)
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
So I'll be reading the forum, my way of checking that the temperature is still comfortable for most people and I'll be looking for spikes or drops, hot zones or cool zones. I notice this guy Edgar. I notice that three times he's referred to women as bitches. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but he's definitely on my radar. I don't know of this is my Fe or not, but I'm just going to say it is. Why am I giving him the benefit of the doubt?

  1. He's a new member
  2. This may be his style of joking
  3. Even though it may upset me a bit that he's called women bitches three times other people seemed not to have commented or be upset about it so I'll stay cool, for now. I bolded for now, because contrary to popular opinion I have no problem disturbing the peace. I hate false peace and that tend to happen when people are being inhibited from speaking their mind. That is not something I'm in favor of. Additionally, my Fe sometimes leads me to believe that just because I feel something, someone else feels it as well. False and overindification is problem that FJs have. This is one thing I'm grateful for the FPs on the forum about, letting people own their own feelings and I need to take ownership of my own. I can't assume people feel the same as I do.

Hi Proteanmix, somebody brought this thread to my attention.

I actually already addressed the issue that you have brought up in a different thread:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/10285-nt-habit-2.html

Hope that helps.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I don't find Fe anymore fake than other flogged-to-death functions. Sure, dominant Fe users can be real wheeler-dealer used-car-salesman types of people, but the function itself doesn't really deserve to be castigated. I'm only remotely aware that I'm using Fe because it's always working, always running. I feel my Ni anchors it pretty well, but I also have to maintain a level of self-awareness that at least indicates to me, during moments of wrack and brimstone, that I'm drowning the world and need to find a way to reach equilibrium.

Fe can't help but announce itself.
 

Atomic Fiend

New member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
7,275
My Fe isn't fake, if anything it it's the most honest part of me. I have fallen into the habit of spilling the beans on many different aspects about myself that people really don't need to know.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Wow, I can totally relate to PMs post, totally, especially the part about waiting for confirmation from other people that I'm not overreacting. The posts where edgar refers to bitches made me cringe and I did the same thing by stepping back to see how others reacted.

Fe isn't fake but I can sometimes feel as though I'm putting others first when I shouldn't.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
Wow, I can totally relate to PMs post, totally, especially the part about waiting for confirmation from other people that I'm not overreacting. The posts where edgar refers to bitches made me cringe and I did the same thing by stepping back to see how others reacted.

Fe isn't fake but I can sometimes feel as though I'm putting others first when I shouldn't.

For the sake of truce and goodwill, I would like to post this:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUN5560mbdo"]Women Appreciation Video[/YOUTUBE]
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,247
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Some people view Fe as fake. There are a number of reasons for this, but I think the most common is that a person with undeveloped Fe doesn't really understand that FJ types process things differently. For example a compliment might not mean much to an INTP, but it is a meaningful connection to a FJ type (assuming that it is perceived as sincere).

That's definitely one reason: A particular type is evaluating another type according to THEIR standards, without stepping into the other types' shoes and understand how they see the world and what is sincere and meaningful to them.

It's not much different than Fe people looking at Ti and thinking we always just like to cause trouble and can't ever just place someone's well-being ahead of our own tendency to argue and push our own ideas. (They're not getting that it's not personal to us; and that to not say something feels like a lack of integrity.)

We all do it.

Another reason Fe can seem fake is that ExTP types realize the effect different actions have on FJ types so they can learn to fake Fe to some extent. Ultimately the ExTP's are just faking it though, and this can make people think Fe is fake in general.

I can't speak for individuals, but there's a tendency for people leading with N and/or T to wield F as a tool to produce a desired outcome, true, since the F actually isn't "in charge."
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I can't speak for individuals, but there's a tendency for people leading with N and/or T to wield F as a tool to produce a desired outcome, true, since the F actually isn't "in charge."

This makes me wonder how many people may have typed someone they know as ESFJ, but really they are ExTP using Fe like a bludgeoning tool. Like Scarlett O'Hara.

Maybe many ExTP females in the past felt it more socially acceptable to communicate with others via Fe, to act as Fe dom when they really had a poor develiopment of Fe as inferior function. Just a thought that comes to me. When people on these boards are nagging on Fe, it seems many times it's about an older female they know.
 

wedekit

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
MBTI Type
INFJ
Agree with laser. But I am fake with people I don't want to establish a real connection with, obviously. I stick to pretty boring subject with these people so I can chase them off even though I seem very nice. I seem very "smiley face" and there's this kind of void behind it that lets people guess I really really am being insincere and don't give a damn about the conversation, well not all people.

Hahaha, I never really thought about it but I guess I do this as well. People I don't really wish to create a bond with (usually for good reason; not because of snobbery) just get a "formality Fe" from me. People who push my buttons too much don't receive this luxury.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
Agree with laser. But I am fake with people I don't want to establish a real connection with, obviously. I stick to pretty boring subject with these people so I can chase them off even though I seem very nice. I seem very "smiley face" and there's this kind of void behind it that lets people guess I really really am being insincere and don't give a damn about the conversation, well not all people.

This is part of what gets Fe labeled as fake, you want to be seen as nice while brushing someone off? Just can't be done without people eventually realizing the fakeness of the action. We can't always be "nice" in life and it's disingenuous to try. jmo.
 

wedekit

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
MBTI Type
INFJ
This is part of what gets Fe labeled as fake, you want to be seen as nice while brushing someone off? Just can't be done without people eventually realizing the fakeness of the action. We can't always be "nice" in life and it's disingenuous to try. jmo.

I would be interested in knowing an alternative way of handling this kind of situation. I'm being sincere, too.
 

sarah

soft and silky
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
548
MBTI Type
isfp
This makes me wonder how many people may have typed someone they know as ESFJ, but really they are ExTP using Fe like a bludgeoning tool. Like Scarlett O'Hara.

Maybe many ExTP females in the past felt it more socially acceptable to communicate with others via Fe, to act as Fe dom when they really had a poor develiopment of Fe as inferior function. Just a thought that comes to me. When people on these boards are nagging on Fe, it seems many times it's about an older female they know.

I agree with this. UNDERdeveloped use of any cognitive function can give that function a bad name. Also, I'm thinking that a lot of the criticism aimed at Fe may be because people who clearly don't prefer it can't yet understand the value of it when they see others using it.

It's taken me a while to understand the value of Fe, and I don't think I really "got" what it was all about until I formed a friendship with someone who was domFe, and who seemed to me to be a genuine person of integrity.
I stopped discounting Fe as just "social networking skills" once I reframed it in my mind as a heartfelt desire to connect with others and appreciate others.

Sarah
ISFP
 

Simplexity

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
1,741
MBTI Type
INTP
One quick question I have is being fake more due to individual or group dynamics?

I know I used to piss off a lot of my Fe teachers in grade school by challenging them and not listening to their appeals for emotion and they didn't hesitate in using group dynamics to make a case against me.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I would be interested in knowing an alternative way of handling this kind of situation. I'm being sincere, too.

Being civil is different than being friendly.

It really depends on how Fe one is getting in these cases. If one is acting friendily while not being open, then it is sending mixed messages out. This is what is so frustrating and confusing to Fi types. It's like the Fe person wants the other person to like them and feel warm and fuzzy towards them but they don't want to give anything of themselves in return.

There's nothing more insulting than having someone be in truth rejecting while they working hard to maintain a friendly exterior. Sort of like someone always ringing the doorbell but running when you come to answer.

It is like if you want to reject someone, then stand up and take the heat, don't hide behind some good guy facade. :D
 
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