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  1. #71
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I do notice that my Fi-dominant boss won't even acknowledge people whom she doesn't like. No problem with me, but I also notice she has to work harder (turn up the "fake Fe") to get those in other departments to cooperate with projects. And it's also odder that awful lot of people feel this way towards her.
    I learned early on, like by 17 that attempting to use a fake form of Fe on my part is the fastest way for me to truly alienate others. But there's a large gap between not using lots of Fe and ignoring others, maybe your boss never learned this, I just don't know.

    What has worked best for me as Fi at work to be quietly kind and polite and then whenever possible show kindness through action. Like at work, try to be the patient one who is willing to take a moment to help and to ask when I have time if I can help others. To be kind and patient when things are stressful and going wrong. Be known as the person who is easy to deal with. That's the best way for me to develop valuable friendships at work. Also to be a listener, someone who is willing to truly listen and understand. There's always some aspect of a person that one can feel sympathy for it seems.

  2. #72
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I've used Fe to overpower difficult people before. It winds up taking on a menacing tone because the emotion behind it is bludgeoning, not friendly. In a weird way, it's just as sincere as when being used for "good".

    Example: The scene in Wuthering Heights where Heathcliff has returned all grown up and has dropped in on Catherine, and her ridiculous sister in law believes herself to be in love with Heathcliff. Catherine pins Isabella to her chair and barrages her with a mocking tirade right in front of Heathcliff (who couldn't care less about Isabella and does nothing to stop it). Catherine holds her down until Isabella draws blood from her hands with her fingernails.

    I would have, and have, done things like that, when I've lost my patience entirely. Not terribly flattering, but it IS Fe on a tear.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #73
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwigie View Post
    Agree with laser. But I am fake with people I don't want to establish a real connection with, obviously. I stick to pretty boring subject with these people so I can chase them off even though I seem very nice. I seem very "smiley face" and there's this kind of void behind it that lets people guess I really really am being insincere and don't give a damn about the conversation, well not all people.
    Yeah I do this too! I go all polite and formal with these people, but what I'm thinking inside is: "I wish this person would go away! Can't they tell I'm only talking to them out of politeness?". I don't think I've ever been brave enough to say this out loud. Sometimes I curse my Fe for this, but mostly I love its ability to establish rapport with other people.
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  4. #74
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    Default New here, liked "I just don't get it" and especially

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    I taught a 4-day workshop one time where a third of the participants were dominant Fe's and I'd venture to say all mature people--a perfect fish bowl of what Fe looks like at its best. In subtle ways they were constantly making sure everyone was having as much fun as they were, making sure the coffee stayed fresh and hot, suggesting a bit better arrangement for tables so everyone could see, organizing lunch so no one who wanted to be included was excluded, etc. The whole room was happy all week.

    Fe at its best is working toward harmony (not manipulation), recognizing others' needs and acting to meet them when appropriate (not codependency), ensuring a group remains true to its cause (without becoming bossy), and listening and responding (sincerely). Those are the behaviors you see when Fe is making decisions based on stepping into the shoes of others and understanding the impact on each person of various alternatives. Like all types, they're great people when they have mature command of their function and a well-developed auxiliary to keep them grounded...

    Fe is my auxiliary. It's never as natural for me to read a room (unless I'm training and then it's my job and the instinct kicks in), note others' needs, speak up with compliments, etc. It always feels like an afterthought. Here's where I have trouble, though, with the 8-function model as I'm not sure Fe is a "thing" as much as "I'm an Introvert who prefers Feeling but has to give myself a jump-start to get out of my Introverted world and act on what the Feeling function just decided..." That delay probably lessens the sincerity meter with others since my reactions are often delayed.
    like this post! LOL!!!! I just started laughing when I read this. How true for me

    I've been told (test) I'm an INFJ. From what I've read over the years, seems true - until I found this website. How much I don't know! Good gracious, what a lot of reading/exploring, etc. to do.. and while I love taking psychological tests, doing all this research seems like a bit too much work. I visited another site, found via link, which offered a LOT of explanation of 3 different models to compare, contrast and 'refine' your type.... whew... that's a lot of work, lol!

    Back to subject... I really got a kick out of edCoaching's post - that's me to a "T", so thank you Ed... now I don't have to go look up/read/try to understand all the FE/FI 'stuff'...... what a relief!

    I've bookmarked this site and will go lurk a bit and figure it out from there

    Thanks, all!

    M

  5. #75
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Fe for me:

    Fe reminds me of a mouse in a person's front pocket. When it pokes its head up from hiding and sees people around food in the distance, making its presence know is suicide. Hence why its learned to eat when I tell it to eat - in a safe and comfortable environment. My friends know of my pet but others do not.
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

  6. #76
    Member cheap's Avatar
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    i am infj but i can relate more to the infps in this thread. i have social phobia so that's probably why i hold back a lot of my Fe and most people perceive me as aloof.

    if i'm having a bad day i'm pretty transparent and will go sit alone. i won't feel guilty for "not accommodating" because i'm causing no harm.

    she's energised by being warm, friendly and nurturing with others. her sincere motivations possibly projects that everyone needs affection and to be "cheered up." each type has their own way of communicating caring and sincerity, for the rest..being a calm, good listener is certainly one of them. can't please everyone.

    the only thing that could be considered mildly "fake" is i don't normally tell people when they're bothering me unless it's a bigger issue. it doesn't unintentionally lead people to become clingy/dependant like with my enfj friend though because she gives an impression of inclusion and invitation even to those who will eventually feel accepted, thus drive her nuts :P

    Quote Originally Posted by TenebrousReflection View Post
    I think it comes down to more neutral vs nice/outgoing/friendly. Its easy to be sincerely neutral and still be polite, considerate and when needed being diplomatic about things, but doing so in a "just business" sort of way, but some people go out of their way to smile and be cheerful all the time, and for some of the people they are dealing with, thats a sincere expression of how they feel about them, but for others its an unconscious act thats misleading.
    ...
    If I'm nice to someone, its because I find them likable and if I express concern or interest in them its genuine (but even a lot of my friends would probably call me detached and distant a lot of the time ), but if I either have no opinion about someone or even if I dislike them I try to be neutral but civil and polite toward them, but don't try to show interest/concern etc if its not within me.
    yeah, i will try to tolerate them with a formal, reserved front as to not cause conflict that could potentially blow up out of larger proportion the petty irritation i can always recharge from. i would call such formality being civil but not cheerful or potentially sending mixed signals.

    my enfj friend more "actively tolerates" as if she's trying hard to erase the irritation through interacting with them, "it's not them, it's my ability to deal...plus they want to interact with me so i'm meeting their needs" (although she brings further irritation on herself..she does have a need to be needed). eventually she needs to recharge too but she can persist with putting others' feelings before her own with greater perseverance than me, gives her more fulfilment to be able to do this.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    This is my experience exactly with Fe a lot of the time. I don't see the point of doing the building part if you dismiss the person straight after. It becomes just a social formality. You get someone excited that you care, so you feel like a good person, then kick them back into the gutter and move onto the next. From an Fi point of view it can really feel like the human element of a situation is neglected.
    The problem sometime is that P's can get way to nerdy while FJ's feel like: this guy only want to speak want to speak of this and that on his own terms (not wanting to find common ground), and if I don't understand it I'm not smart enough or enough interested, accoarding to FP's. Why doesnt this person give me an introduction or something or try to tell parts that might interest me? The social skills of P's can sometimes be appaulling

  8. #78
    Senior Member Kestrel's Avatar
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    I'm utterly perplexed by how people on this forum describe Fe. Could it be that some people use their functions in a different manner than others? And perhaps Fi and Fe are not so radically different? Or MAYBE one is not better than the other?

    Or maybe someone could explain these functions in a way that makes sense. So far it seems to me that all of our "functions" are so deeply entangled and you can't tell your Fi from your Se.

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorkan View Post
    The problem sometime is that P's can get way to nerdy while FJ's feel like: this guy only want to speak want to speak of this and that on his own terms (not wanting to find common ground), and if I don't understand it I'm not smart enough or enough interested, accoarding to FP's. Why doesnt this person give me an introduction or something or try to tell parts that might interest me? The social skills of P's can sometimes be appaulling
    Sorry, it was a little insulting and poorly expressed, I'd actually considered deleting it. If I can I will. (I got a bit riled up by one or two of the statements I read before it on Fi.)

    The point I was agreeing with was to us it can feel like the cause reigns above the people, which in a way is contradictory seeing the aim is helping people. I shouldn't have generalised, and I shouldn't have said it is purely an Fe trait. Maybe I was pointing out a potential blind spot. Maybe it is a flaw in our perception and there is no blind spot. Maybe it is a different focus with the same intentions.

    I'm agreeing with the post above as I read more. I think Fe and Fi are two sides of the same coin. They might even be the same function but in a form where they can't recognise eachother and we spend a lot of time kicking our best allies in the head. At this stage I just really want to get to the bottom of the whole INFJ-ENFP thing. And I am starting to realise we both have a talant for wanting to be better and trying to cut out the other. They are essentially feeling functions. We both care, just in different ways which neither sees as good enough. And the conflict has perplexed me since the first time I saw an ENFP mention another NF on their list of types they didn't get on with. It is something that is so out of place that it shouldn't happen. Like mentioned in the other thread, it's like two people yelling at eachother in chinese and english and probably agreeing. You see from our view as little as we see from yours. Your explanations describe as little in our view as ours do in yours. And you insult as much in our realm as we do in yours. I think that is the starting realisation in all this. Maybe we have to bash around till it all gets out in the open and becomes clear... get insulted, be uncertain, reassess ourselves and find a place where the two worlds meet. I have learnt very little from most INFJ posts on the thread though on more than a superficial level, and INFJs will probably learn little from us on more than a superficial level. Because to the other, the things we truly believe in have no appeal.. maybe they are even the things we fight against. It is a reconciling of different languages and different worlds. But one that could be so powerful if it happened, because you have the part that doesn't appeal so we ignore. In a way you complete us.

    p.s. I'm sorry again and am going to be consciously careful not to get set off by posts from now on, because it is pretty bad for the forum and destructive to the discussion.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  10. #80
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenebrousReflection View Post
    I think it comes down to more neutral vs nice/outgoing/friendly. Its easy to be sincerely neutral and still be polite, considerate and when needed being diplomatic about things, but doing so in a "just business" sort of way, but some people go out of their way to smile and be cheerful all the time, and for some of the people they are dealing with, thats a sincere expression of how they feel about them, but for others its an unconscious act thats misleading. In an interaction I observed a few months ago, one such nearly-always cheerful person (who I suspect is an ENFJ) asks another person (who I don't know much about but seems like an IxFP of some kind) the simple "haven't seen you around for a while, how have you been?" and the other person goes on to explain their current medical problems etc, and the person that asked the question listens and lets them keep talking for a while, but eventually excuses himself from the conversation. In the end the person that was asked mumbles to themselves in an annoyed tone (after the first person had left), "if he didn't want to know, why did he ask". Its that sort of faked interest/concern that bothers me as well. After I spend several months around someone I can usually tell the level of concern/sincerity/seriousness in their idle conversation like that, but with some people (and people I don't know very well), it seems impossible to differentiate because its an always on thing for them. If I'm nice to someone, its because I find them likable and if I express concern or interest in them its genuine (but even a lot of my friends would probably call me detached and distant a lot of the time ), but if I either have no opinion about someone or even if I dislike them I try to be neutral but civil and polite toward them, but don't try to show interest/concern etc if its not within me.
    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    This is my experience exactly with Fe a lot of the time. I don't see the point of doing the building part if you dismiss the person straight after. It becomes just a social formality. You get someone excited that you care, so you feel like a good person, then kick them back into the gutter and move onto the next. From an Fi point of view it can really feel like the human element of a situation is neglected.
    Yeah, people are gonna have to give me some examples here.

    I'm hearing people talk about Fe in the abstract being "fake" but it's thin on actual situations. It's almost as if people that decry Fe as fake are never in situations that require some fancy footwork to extricate themselves from. If you all have any pointed I would LOVE to hear them. I'm serious because I could use some new moves.

    I'll even give yall one.

    This past week we had the dreaded Annual Multicultural Potluck Celebration. That's when people bring in homecooked dishes representing their culture or cultures of their choosing. I HATE IT. I don't trust eating people's food, I don't like pretending I like it, I just hate this thing. This year a friend and I were going to sneak out for lunch before our coworkers we're friends with came looking for us to go the potluck.

    I made it to the elevator and the damn thing was taking an eternity to get to my floor. The door opened and here was one of my coworkers going to the kitchen to heat up her food.

    "Where are you going?"
    "Oh, I'm headed downstairs."
    "You're not going to the potluck?"
    "Um, I'm going to get lunch downstairs " (Now that I think about it maybe this is where I should've lied!)
    "Why are you buying lunch when we have the multicultural luncheon?"
    "I love to waste money when I don't need too!"
    "Are you at least going to try my [insert dish]?"
    "Well you know those burritos fill you up..."
    "OK, well I'll save you some!"

    By now a couple of other coworkers I'm friendly with have seen me and they're like "where are you going too" Repeat story from above. They all are like "well why don't you just look around and see if there's anything you like." I end up caving and eating food, people asking me if I like and I LIE LIKE HELL.

    FPs et al, please tell me what you would've done not appear "fake" still be polite, and come out unscathed. Because I don't know if you know what it's like to have a coven of women hovering around you asking you to try their food and then daring to ask if you like it or not. Do you say "oh the cornbread was a little dry" or "Your pansit has pork in it and I don't eat pork" or "the sweet potatoes taste like vomit." Do you all really say those things flat out to people? You know what the hell I did? I smiled and said each time I was asked "It tastes delicious!" I guess I am fake as hell then.

    I'm OK with it though.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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