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  1. #101
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Please people. This thread originally began as so many other threads begin about Fe but it turned into something better. If anyone wants to read a thread pitting Fi and Fe against each other do a search because there are plenty of them on the forum.

    There are times when you must compromise and times when compromise leads to destruction; that's a common platitude. It's the difference between having no backbone and having a steel beam for a spine. Both of those restrict movement. This isn't all or nothing.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #102
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    ESTREL: I think your first post, about Fi seem to be unyielding, can be valid if you give examples of it. It can get way to fuzzy if you don't explain your thought process and noigm, like other with Te, will problably come on strong on you. Don't be scared by it or think that they won't understand, instead see it as an opportunity to get shit on the way cleared so you don't get deeper in mistrustfullness.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Kestrel's Avatar
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    See, the problem is.. the only examples of Fi I can give is how I experience it. And since it's my "shadow function", it's usually not a good reflection of what Fi is capable of.

    My Fi seems to only have an ugly side. It tends to show up if someone or something comes at me and I have no way of emotionally defending myself. I've had instances of someone sensing my Fi and immediately "smelling blood" and continuing to hound me until I snap.

    So I guess it boils down to.. are Fe users capable of understanding what good Fi feels like and vice versa?

  4. #104
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    Well I don't really think It's possible for an INFJ to experience Fi and also have the knowledge of It's presence in oneself (like "aha", this is Fi!). You could give examples of any situation within 2 of the 5 sences, hearing and seeing (other people).
    But if It was something that just popped out from your Ni, It is doomed to get critized among Si's (meaning people with Si in 1 of their 4 primary functions) .... unless you could complement It with some thinking.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    I had some big reactive post but then I realized you were thinking of the wrong definition of unyielding.

    I meant unyielding in the respect of not backing down when your values are on the line. That's certainly not a bad thing.

    I did not mean unyielding as in the definition of "not having any yield."

    So it was miscommunication. No harm no foul.
    Sorry about my post . I'm an idiot. Your one is the common definition. It is just being in science I always associate yield with produce.

    It was interesting to note we both mapped our thoughts out for the other to check for misunderstandings. I didn't recognise that at first, but you let me know where you were at so I could act accordingly.

    Anyway, good it resolved. As Fi we are a little insecure on being called lazy and stuff, because we sort of just work out of sight a lot, rather than don't work. But that doesn't get recognised because we feel bad about using the things we value as tools to justify stuff. Sort of create our own problem in that respect.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorkan View Post
    Well I don't really think It's possible for an INFJ to experience Fi and also have the knowledge of It's presence in oneself (like "aha", this is Fi!). You could give examples of any situation within 2 of the 5 sences, hearing and seeing (other people).
    But if It was something that just popped out from your Ni, It is doomed to get critized among Si's (meaning people with Si in 1 of their 4 primary functions) .... unless you could complement It with some thinking.
    Hey, you're running as a pretty good mediator here . Keep it up.

    We struggle in the same way with Fe. We just get a better glimpse of it because it is an extroverted function and ingrained in society. Though Ni I can be totally clueless.

    I was thinking we should have a thread where we say what is awesome about each of these functions we have and what we love about their impact in the past and present. Like a criticism free thread where we see the good points of all these functions. I don't think we have any chance of appreciating the others functions from discussing what annoys us about them. (if that sounds accusational at all it isn't meant to be, I'm more guilty than most in this so ignore difference in interpretation). I also notice when with my INFJ friends these issues tend to rarely be more than a small annoyance ocassionally. We just come out about them more online, maybe there are some cues in person that eliminate the ambiguity.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #107
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    TenebrousReflection, thank you for the advice. When you've used that method in the past, how have people responded? Like I said, I have little problem with lying in smaller annoyances like this. Now my whole moral framework is in jeopardy of crumbling! :steam:
    Well, its pretty rare that people ask feedback from me and don't expect objective critical analysis (especially in a work environment), so I think that should be taken into consideration with regards to how people react to me approaching a situation like that, but in the few times where I've had to deal with a situation like that, I have not visibly offended the other person by the words I used (whether there was unspoken/invisible hurt at my lack of praise I do not know). Another factor to consider is the work environment itself, if you work in an office with several gruff, grizzled and grumpy people, then even an attempt at diplomacy and courtesy can look thoughtful in comparison . Acting like an NT may not be being completly true to self (I do not see it as such, but I could see where it could be argued that it is a form of deception not too different from a white lie), but its a defense mechanism I've used for so long that it does feel natural, and I think that helps create expectations of me that make me less likely to offend others in those situations.

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