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  1. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Consider for example how Tolstoy would preoccupy himself with the problem of evil and many other problems of human nature. He would derive great aesthetical joy and much grief from such contemplation, as his novels clearly reflected.

    This is much less common among SFs on the following grounds as well,

    I would argue that the emotional life of NFs is richer than that of SFs because NFs are able to apply their passions to more entities than SFs simply because their imagination allows them more access to entities that could serve as breeding ground and for their emotions (as well as direct sources) than SFs have.
    Tolstoy's novels are actually very cool, analytical, and intellectual. They're morality plays, carefully planned and executed. "War and Peace" is a giant illustration of Tolstoy's intellectual philosophy of determinism of world events; "Anna Karenina" is a simple morality play: Sexual promiscuity ends in disaster. Not much joy there.

    Tolstoy was a moralist, not an emoter. He was against strong emotions. He thought strong emotions led to crime and dissolution and felt that art should elevate the intellect and morality at the expense of emotion; hence "Anna Karenina." His novels are usually translated with more heat than the original Russian because they capture an imperial period. But in fact the original Russian is actually rather dull and carefully controlled. Tolstoy hated high society and considered it immoral and dissolute, so he deliberately tried to portray it as colorless and dull.

    As for emotion driven by imagination: There are different types of emotion: "chicken soup for the soul" emotion, emotion driven by actual events, and emotion driven by imagination, among others. The last one is rather high-flown and noble, but it's also pretty shallow. You can put it down and walk away from it at the drop of a hat. I know that emotion all too well.

  2. #592
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Oh, BTW I'm a scientist too.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  3. #593
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    No, I didn't. Both examples, originally had their tests done professionally. I know this because I went and did it with the same practioner at thier recommendations.
    Okay.

    List all the people you have in mind and their professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Oh, BTW I'm a scientist too.

    What kind of a scientist?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The emotions of the INTP are focused on impersonal topics, yet emotions of the INFP are focused more on those that engage their passions directly.

    That is the first notable difference.

    The second difference is the emotions of the INTP are engaged less than the emotions of the INFP and for this reason the INTP has an easier time with logical analysis. In almost all cases however, the emotions of the INFP are not engaged to the point where all logical analysis would be rendered impossible, and in the cases of INFPs with a well developed Thinking, rigorous analysis is often performed on issues that engage the emotions of the INFP.
    I think you missed my point. I wasn't talking about the emotions of an INTP.

    Specifically I was comparing an internal Fi (emotional) model or structure to an internal Ti (logical) model or structure. They would be the same (at least initially, in childhood), except that the "bricks" for the Fi model would be emotions while the "bricks" for the Ti model would be math and science.

    Naturally, one can speak of what the Fi child would do with math and science vs. what the Ti child would do with emotions. But that wasn't my previous point.

  5. #595
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Oh, BTW I'm a scientist too.
    Although not involved in research.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Tolstoy was a moralist, not an emoter. He was against strong emotions.
    Tolstoy was an INFJ, by my reckoning. But let's not get into that here.

  7. #597
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I think you missed my point. I wasn't talking about the emotions of an INTP.

    Specifically I was comparing an internal Fi (emotional) model or structure to an internal Ti (logical) model or structure. They would be the same (at least initially, in childhood), except that the "bricks" for the Fi model would be emotions while the "bricks" for the Ti model would be math and science.

    Naturally, one can speak of what the Fi child would do with math and science vs. what the Ti child would do with emotions. But that wasn't my previous point.
    Would you imagine that a Ti child would have greater natural aptitude towards logic, whilst an Fi child would excell more at relating to people?

    Would you also imagine that a Ti child would struggle at relating to people, yet an Fi child would struggle at logical analysis?

    Hmm, my earlier point was that they both have structure in their Thinking, but there is more structure in the Ti mind than in the Fi. It could be the case however that we are not having the same discussion at this point.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Would you imagine that a Ti child would have greater natural aptitude towards logic, whilst an Fi child would excell more at relating to people?

    Would you also imagine that a Ti child would struggle at relating to people, yet an Fi child would struggle at logical analysis?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Hmm, my earlier point was that they both have structure in their Thinking, but there is more structure in the Ti mind than in the Fi. It could be the case however that we are not having the same discussion at this point.
    And I say I have structure in my Fi model, but it's used to organize emotion.

  9. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Tolstoy was an INFJ, by my reckoning. But let's not get into that here.
    I would argue ENFP because unlike Dostoevsky (INFJ), Tolstoy seemed to have many themes in his novels and many characters. For example the War and Peace seemed to aspire to deliver many messages through many mouthpieces. Hence, this is Ne, or imagination sparked up by many external stimuli.

    Yet Dostoevsky on the other hand was an Ni dom. His imagination was sparked up only by a few certain sources. Hence, his vision seemed to have had more focus and there appeared to be one clear or a small set of clear messages he aspired to deliver.

    Also, Dostoevsky was clearly preaching to the reader, he makes explicit value judgments that he expects everyone to abide by (those concerning his radical political and religious views)--Fe.

    Yet Tolstoy is passionate about his maxims, yet he does not aspire to persuade the reader nearly as much.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  10. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Yes.



    And I say I have structure in my Fi model, but it's used to organize emotion.
    I think we are in agreement here, and the structure in your model is the result of Thinking, as aforementioned. Thinking in this case is subordinated to the interests of Introverted Feeling, that is why your Thinking is concerned with emotion.

    On the other hand, the Feeling of the INTP is subordinated to the interests of Introverted Thinking, that is why many INTPs are passionate about mathematics, philosophy and physics.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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