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  1. #571
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    The model is under constant construction and reorganization, and a lot of strange things get layered into it. I already mentioned in an earlier post that cynicism and selfishness are part of the makeup; I wouldn't doubt that a lot of Thinking appears in there as well.

    Still, that model was already there as a kid. I had it beat into me pretty early (in good part by my ISTP father) that emotions were tricky. I couldn't stop feeling them, so at a minimum I needed to be able to handle and organize them some way.




    In any case, I don't think my internal model is arbitrary. The outside world presents plenty of examples of heirarchies and rules for emotions and emotional situations. So I think of my model as a brick structure: Logic is the mortar (that is, "logic" as dictated by real-world consensus as to how emotions should be viewed and handled), and the bricks are subjective/personal emotions and emotional situations from the past.

    Anyway, something like that. Are you able to distinguish between the mortar and the bricks in your internal Ti model?
    I grant that Fi is a judging function. The question to follow is, to what degree is it a judging function?

    Jung defines Judging as simply conscious, and perceiving as unconscious.

    We clearly see that Thinking is a judging function in the most conventional sense of the term, as it can provide a logical justification for a decision.

    Yet, Feeling in itself merely points towards a decision. It is simply a sentiment of approval or disapproval. Thus, it is clearly not as neatly organized as Thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    In any case, I don't think my internal model is arbitrary. ?
    I would attribute this to your ability to use Thinking.


    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    In Still, that model was already there as a kid. I had it beat into me pretty early (in good part by my ISTP father) that emotions were tricky. I couldn't stop feeling them, so at a minimum I needed to be able to handle and organize them some way.
    ?
    Quite obviously you used Thinking to organize them.

    Tell me please if you could think of any other way organize anything without relying on logic.

    For instance, if I were to say Bob is bad. In my mind I have an idea of what Bob is, and what bad is, however fuzzy they may be. And I connect the two. This procedure could be depicted in the language of symbolic logic.

    All of us do this, thus this shows that all of us use logic or use Thinking.

    It is not possible to organize anything without defining terms and connecting them, this is Thinking or logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    The model is under constant construction and reorganization, and a lot of strange things get layered into it. I already mentioned in an earlier post that cynicism and selfishness are part of the makeup; I wouldn't doubt that a lot of Thinking appears in there as well.?
    The fact that you had a model to begin with shows that you used Thinking.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #572
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    .......
    Last edited by CrystalViolet; 11-03-2008 at 04:06 AM. Reason: double post
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  3. #573
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Blue Wing,
    You make it sound as though INFP's in particular, are at the mercy of their emotions, just lying in there in a puddle of drool, as wave after wave of feeling washes over them.

    Do you even know a INFP in real life? Because if you did, you wouldn't make half the claims that you do. I have not met one INFP, who is incapable of conducting a logical argument. Or who is unable to exhibit cool detachment when required, in fact, in some respects, they are able to do so more then some of the other NF types (sorry guys.) I have some excellent examples IRL, but you have to meet them.The sad fact is, Blue Wing none of your prosthelysing is applicable, because for all your theorising and logic, the very thing you claim to be Ti's advantage is indeed your disadvantage, and that would be detachment. You are so lost in the logic in your head, so detached that you have lost touch with reality.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  4. #574
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Well, on the smaller stuff my little sister is way more emotive than me. She's kind of child-like, quick to emote and mourn every little thing. I'm more reflective, quicker to distance, quicker to write off the small stuff as beneath my dignity, quicker to rise above things and take a philosophical view.

    [Edit: I know INFPs can be dramatic; but that tends to run shallow. ISFPs can be cyclothymic; that can also be shallow but it's quickly and easily triggered.]
    Consider for example how Tolstoy would preoccupy himself with the problem of evil and many other problems of human nature. He would derive great aesthetical joy and much grief from such contemplation, as his novels clearly reflected.

    This is much less common among SFs on the following grounds as well,

    I would argue that the emotional life of NFs is richer than that of SFs because NFs are able to apply their passions to more entities than SFs simply because their imagination allows them more access to entities that could serve as breeding ground and for their emotions (as well as direct sources) than SFs have.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  5. #575
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Blue Wing,
    You make it sound as though INFP's in particular, are at the mercy of their emotions, just lying in there in a puddle of drool, as wave after wave of feeling washes over them..
    How do you figure?

    Obviously everyone uses Thinking, INFPs with much less competence than most types, yet they are not completely devoid rationality.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #576
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Wing, would you say that yourself, being an INTP with dormant Fe are a socially inept, emotional idiot, then?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  7. #577
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Wing, would you say that yourself, being an INTP with inferior Fe is a socially inept, emotional idiot, then?
    Generally is the case with INTPs. Towards older age some may overcome this, but I would not hold my breath.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #578
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Generally is the case with INTPs. Towards older age some may overcome this, but I would not hold my breath.


    You weren't supposed to answer my question that way, damn you!!!

    And you also quoted my post before I corrected my grammatical error, damn you straight to hell!!!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #579
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Have you met an INFP in real life?
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  10. #580
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Have you met an INFP in real life?
    I've dated one for over a year and used to be around them all the time...
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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