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  1. #561
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    ???????????????/

    All I can say...Where is the foundation to any of this?
    I think her reasoning was that dominant Ti users don't necessary need to build their Feeling functions to the extent that Feelers have to with their thinking Functions.

    The case on intelligence and Ti dominant users ease in utilizing it would need another thread and for the purposes of not starting a flame war is better left untouched for now.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  2. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    However, a dom F who is Intuitive will experience emotion to a greater degree than a dom F who is a Sensor. This is the case because his attunement with the intellect allows reflection on emotions possible, therefore it is possible for him to experience emotion more. (Consider the following examples. If I am under anesthesia and I am pinched, I do not have an intellectual awareness of my pain, in other words, my brain never gets the ouch signal. In order for me to feel pain, the pain must be registered in my mind. This is what led many to conclude that animals and retards cannot feel pain. The ability of animals to feel pain evinces that they are attuned with the intellect to a degree.)
    I think I disagree. And I think the analogy is terrible. Anyway:

    My ISFP sister split from her first husband shortly before I split from my first wife, and we were living pretty close by and saw each other frequently.

    I would say that my Sensor dom F sister wallowed in her negative emotions more before her split, whereas I wallowed in my negative emotions more after mine.

    My sister is more "in the moment," so she suffered more as the pain occured and then got over it more quickly after the split. I'm more reflective, so I tended to distance myself from the pain over the short-term and then reflect on it more in the aftermath .

    So I wouldn't say that an ISFP experiences less emotion. My sister was plenty broken up about the whole thing at the time. I would just say that we focus on it at different chronological stages.

    (Then there is the whole issue about healthy processing of strong emotion. One could argue that a Sensor might have difficulty processing such a big loss and get stuck in a melancholy phase for longer, thus apparently being more emotive in that sense.)

  3. #563
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Lieutenant Wing, do you not see what you are doing here?

    It is as if you absolutely refuse to accept any new information that does not fit into your old, stagnant model.

    Don't you know that the best model is a *working* model, one that gets modified every time new relevant information materializes?

    You are not really addressing anything I, or anyone else is stating, rather you are asserting and reasserting your *same* stance/system/model over and over again.

    How can I engage you in discourse if every time I bring up a point, or a refutation you safely dodge it rather than letting it saturate and actually addressing it???

    *frustrated*
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  4. #564
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Lieutenant Wing, do you not see what you are doing here?

    It is as if you absolutely refuse to accept any new information that does not fit into your old, stagnant model.

    Don't you know that the best model is a *working* model, one that gets modified every time new relevant information materializes?

    You are not really addressing anything I am stating, rather you are asserting and reasserting your *same* stance/system/model over and over again.

    How can I engage you in discourse if every time I bring up a point, or a refutation you safely dodge it rather than letting it saturate and actually addressing it???

    *frustrated*

    Madame, I assure you, I am currently wrestling with myself more than with you here. Of course, I am considering new ideas, unfortunately many are implausible.

    On a more felicitious note, I have edited my previous post where I have embraced one of your ideas, read up.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  5. #565
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I think her reasoning was that dominant Ti users don't necessary need to build their Feeling functions to the extent that Feelers have to with their thinking Functions.
    Yes.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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  6. #566
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I think I disagree. And I think the analogy is terrible. Anyway:

    My ISFP sister split from her first husband shortly before I split from my first wife, and we were living pretty close by and saw each other frequently.

    I would say that my Sensor dom F sister wallowed in her negative emotions more before her split, whereas I wallowed in my negative emotions more after mine.

    My sister is more "in the moment," so she suffered more as the pain occured and then got over it more quickly after the split. I'm more reflective, so I tended to distance myself from the pain over the short-term and then reflect on it more in the aftermath .

    So I wouldn't say that an ISFP experiences less emotion. My sister was plenty broken up about the whole thing at the time. I would just say that we focus on it at different chronological stages.

    (Then there is the whole issue about healthy processing of strong emotion. One could argue that a Sensor might have difficulty processing such a big loss and get stuck in a melancholy phase for longer, thus apparently being more emotive in that sense.)

    This is not relevant. A loss of a loved one does not take much intelligence to process, it is obvious to everyone.

    So, you were on equal footing in that case.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  7. #567
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Chancellor Wing:

    People do their best work in a *heightened* state of arousal, not an exceedingly high one, and most certainly not at a ROCK CONCERT!!!

    You committed a logical fallacy there, and lucky you I forgot what it's called.

    *goes to find out*

    EDIT: Holy hell there are a shit ton of fallacies.

    Whatever, you get the point.
    `
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    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #568
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    You committed a logical fallacy there, and lucky you I forgot what it's called.*
    What does heightened mean?

    Moreover, my Rock concern example shows that there is indeed an antithesis between Thinking and Feeling, simply because a certain degree of intensification of Feeling or a certain degree of emotional arousal will be counter productive to Thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    *goes to find out*
    Let me know when you do! Though, I do not see the fallacy. What I said follows from your proposition that there is no antithesis between thinking and feeling. The state of arousal we get at a Rock Concert leads to an intensification of Feeling. If there truly was no antithesis between Thinking and Feeling the Rock Concert should not hinder our Thinking.

    If you are Thinking the fallacy consists in misinterpreting what you meant by heightened, I really cannot be blamed because you did not specify how high the arousal must be. Heightened means high by definition, a very general term, which allows room for 'an exceedingly high' interpretation.

    Secondly, your claim that there is no antithesis between Thinking and Feeling also evinces that there was room for the 'exceedingly high' interpretation, as I have shown above.

    I think what you have in mind is the straw man fallacy, or purposefully misrepresenting the other one's position in order to make it appear weaker. This fallacy was impossible for me to comitt because you did not have a clear-cut position to begin with because it was very general.
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  9. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Do you think that this could be attributed to your age? The fact that you had time to develop your Thinking and for this reason your Thinking is organized.
    The model is under constant construction and reorganization, and a lot of strange things get layered into it. I already mentioned in an earlier post that cynicism and selfishness are part of the makeup; I wouldn't doubt that a lot of Thinking appears in there as well.

    Still, that model was already there as a kid. I had it beat into me pretty early (in good part by my ISTP father) that emotions were tricky. I couldn't stop feeling them, so at a minimum I needed to be able to handle and organize them some way.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Thinking is an organized function because it is in tune with logical reasoning.

    Now, why is Feeling an organized function?
    Clarify the question a bit, please. For example, do you agree that Fi is a Judging function, but you disagree that it's organized? What's a Judging function if it's not organized? Or do you think that Fi is not a Judging function at all?

    In any case, I don't think my internal model is arbitrary. The outside world presents plenty of examples of heirarchies and rules for emotions and emotional situations. So I think of my model as a brick structure: Logic is the mortar (that is, "logic" as dictated by real-world consensus as to how emotions should be viewed and handled), and the bricks are subjective/personal emotions and emotional situations from the past.

    Anyway, something like that. Are you able to distinguish between the mortar and the bricks in your internal Ti model?

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    This is not relevant. A loss of a loved one does not take much intelligence to process, it is obvious to everyone.

    So, you were on equal footing in that case.
    Well, on the smaller stuff my little sister is way more emotive than me. She's kind of child-like, quick to emote and mourn every little thing. I'm more reflective, quicker to distance, quicker to write off the small stuff as beneath my dignity, quicker to rise above things and take a philosophical view.

    [Edit: I know INFPs can be dramatic; but that tends to run shallow. ISFPs can be cyclothymic; that can also be shallow but it's quickly and easily triggered.]

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