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  1. #501
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Detachment for me would be suicide.

    Detachment for me would be apathy, and with apathy I would cease to care about life, and a life unworthy of caring is meaningless and a meaningless life is crueler than death.

    *shrugs*
    Well there's degrees of it. Intellectual thought itself, requires a degree of detachment.

    No one's talking about total detachment, to the point of not even caring about your own self.

  2. #502
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I won't, and thank you.


    Hmm, emotions are fleeting, and most things in life are transient, including life itself, but, there is history and I hate this word, so please strip it of its egotistical connotation, but there is also legacy. What you do today with your life, will have consequences that will directly affect the future.

    May I ask you, what do you love?

    What inspires you, makes you feel alive, and well, happy?

    When push comes to shove, what do *you* think really matters about life, whether it be about your life specifically, or life in general?

    What do you care about?
    I do care a lot about my history and legacy and I certainly have an ego to maintain lol. And I do love and care about a lot of things. I was just thinking about how things come and go and there are many differences and twists of fate we have to put up with in our lives- and when push comes to shove, I'm okay with it.

    What matters the most to me is love, and the fact that it exists in the world. I love the complexity of everything in the world. I love people- people are amazing. People and the power of love are what can make me feel the happiest, the most alive, and inspired. The natural world and the enormity and complexity of that can bring out the passion in me too. A lot of things can. Lol I can be awed as well as satisfied pretty easily.
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  3. #503
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    What matters the most to me is love, and the fact that it exists in the world. I love the complexity of everything in the world. I love people- people are amazing. People and the power of love are what can make me feel the happiest, the most alive, and inspired. The natural world and the enormity and complexity of that can bring out the passion in me too. A lot of things can. Lol I can be awed as well as satisfied pretty easily.
    Beautiful!!!



    I can absolutely relate, and let the haters hate, but no matter what they say, love does make the world go round.

    Ti disclaimer: The following statement was/is not meant to be taken literally.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #504
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I appreciate being on the receiving end but couldn't stand to constantly be on the giving end.

    F disclamier: Keep on lovin'
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  5. #505
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    F disclaimer: You're not allowed to get pissed at me for condescending to you guys for saying stupid things if;
    A. You say stupid things
    B. You condescend to me (as per CC's Ti disclaimer) for not cooperating with the things (being too literal)
    we fukin won boys

  6. #506
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    alright now regarding the first post. for me, it is extremely easy to explain Fi. there really isn't much to explain (though it is a very rich and deep function). now ive been skimming through some of the posts and from what it seems, everyone is under the impression that people who are Fi dominant or Fi is their second function do not use logic in any way shape or form. that is wrong. Fi itself doesn't deal with traditional logic (i tend to call Fi emotional logic, but thats bending the term "logic" a bit so disregard) but that doesn't mean that one who is Fi dom isn't logical. i, and many ENFPs like myself, use logic on a daily basis.

    and Nocapszy, i suggest looking into your tertiary function a bit.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  7. #507
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    I do care a lot about my history and legacy and I certainly have an ego to maintain lol. And I do love and care about a lot of things. I was just thinking about how things come and go and there are many differences and twists of fate we have to put up with in our lives- and when push comes to shove, I'm okay with it.

    What matters the most to me is love, and the fact that it exists in the world. I love the complexity of everything in the world. I love people- people are amazing. People and the power of love are what can make me feel the happiest, the most alive, and inspired. The natural world and the enormity and complexity of that can bring out the passion in me too. A lot of things can. Lol I can be awed as well as satisfied pretty easily.
    awww...i feel that way too...lovely to be around other people who say things like this...

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    FineLine's claim merit another mention.

    He argues that a Ti person can be divorced from reality just as much as an Fi person as well as logical thinking is not enough for understanding reality. In other words, it is not enough to think rationally, one must also make accurate observations of reality.

    I argued that thinking logically is a prerequisite for making accurate observations in reality. If a person does not think rationally, he cannot accurate organize and understand his observations.

    A person who does think logically will be inspired to make accurate observations of the external world because inaccurate observations will in most case appear in his thought in a form of contradictions which he cannot tolerate.

    For this reason, it is quite rare that INTPs are divorced from reality.

    However, they do appear to be. As Fineline suggests, a Ti person who says it is fair to mistreat a family member seems to be divorced from reality. FineLine seems to argue that the person who behaves in a way that we deem ethically untenable must be divorced from reality. The latter does not follow from the former.

    A person may have a clear understanding of reality, for instance he may be a physicist, mathematician or a philosopher yet still mistreat peole simply because he is wicked. Quite simply an understanding of reality and treating others in a way that is ethically justified.

    The INTPs who behave in such a way simply do not find treating others in a respectful way to be important. When they say it is 'fair' they are simply looking for a cheap excuse to make their actions seem justifiable in the eyes of others in order to make sure others get off their case.

    Again, I see no reason whatever to connect mistreating other people with a lack of objective understanding of reality.
    Sorry for returning so late and for skipping so much other good material. But I'll just address this one idea because it was at the core of my objection to your (BlueWing's) viewpoint.

    I'm not talking about an inability to observe reality so much as a type of "circumscribed thinking/reacting." Example: The absent-minded INTP professor who runs his life, classes, and family by purely logical principles. He is aware of the emotional side of life, but frankly that side of life seems chaotic to him and so he's too lazy and too afraid of failure to address it. So he simply ignores it and lays waste to the emotions and lives of the people around him. (See the movie "Smart People" for an example.)

    Not that Fi is any better. Many INFPs are perfectly aware of things like schedules and boundaries and planning and analysis, but they're too lazy and afraid of failure to apply those things to their own lives. So they ignore those things and lay waste to the plans and lives of the people around them.

    In this same context, you frequently arrogate the terms "logic," "rationality," and "reason" to T alone; whereas F only get "emotion" and "fickleness." I'll give "logic" to T and "emotion" to F. But "rational" and "reasonable" aren't merely synonyms for "logical." "Rational" and "reasonable" have broader applications to life.

    I see a lot of smart INTPs who engage in wildly irrational behavior by most measures, and who make unreasonable demands of life and the people around them. It's not because they're blind to the realities of life; they just don't want to be bothered dealing with the full complexities of life. Out of laziness and fear they ignore any data that doesn't fit neatly into a simple analytical model they've constructed for dealing with life.

    Actually, in practice, it would probably be more accurate to say that the data is usually included but the INTP refuses to act on the data, or acts in a manner contrary to what's expected or in his own interest. Example: a single INTP knows an attractive woman is interested in him, but he's afraid of rejection or failure so he snubs her and drives her away.

    Fe tends to spook INTPs. And once the INTP gets comfortable with the concept of simply tuning out uncomfortable facts of life, it gets easier and easier to ignore bigger and bigger chunks of life: Te, Se, Si, etc. INTPs are people, and people are basically lazy at heart.

    The INTP's choices and actions are entirely logical within the framework of their own simple analytical model. And I wouldn't characterize that INTP as "wicked" as you've chosen to do; I would prefer to call him lazy and afraid. But in any case, such INTPs are hardly rational and reasonable in the ways they deal with the real world and the people around them. And INFPs do the same thing, albeit using some simplified emotional model (for example, being afraid to take on management roles because they're afraid of Te).

    Anyway, that's why I see pure Ti as no more grounded in reality than pure Fi. Both operate as much by exclusion of factors (an attitude of fear or laziness toward toward any environment or actions that don't fit neatly into their model) as inclusion of factors. In a complex world, they're both just running on half of their cylinders. Rational and reasonable analysis and actions in a real-world setting requires being able to incorporate and react to both logic and emotion.

    (Oh well, that was kind of rambling. Sorry I don't have time to revise. I'll drop the subject at this point.)

  9. #509
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    Not that Fi is any better. Many INFPs are perfectly aware of things like schedules and boundaries and planning and analysis, but they're too lazy and afraid of failure to apply those things to their own lives. So they ignore those things and lay waste to the plans and lives of the people around them.
    I'm curious about the boundary issue, can you elaborate how this would be displayed. In offline life, I am horrified by the notion of offending anyone's boundaries and yet being too standoffish has caused me many interpersonal difficulties.

  10. #510
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    In particular, I was thinking in terms of applying Te boundaries to our own lives. For example, keeping a clean house, completing the projects we've promised on time, taking on management roles and observing the boundaries between ranks instead of buddying up to subordinates, etc.

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