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  1. #471
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Discussion with those who are not like-minded with you increases perspective. Increasing perspective increases objectivity (as defined in gathering clear-cut information). More clear-cut, objective information makes it easier to gain true understanding.
    Exactly.

    We can only approach objectivity through an intra-subjective process. That's the basic law of modern phenomenology.

    ---

    Anyway. I'm not a Fi user, and thus, I looked at this thread as an opportunity to learn, to read what real Fi users would have to say about this function with their own words, their own experiences.
    I was here to gather datas, to observe and analyze.

    But it seems the whole thread was invaded by people who pretended to knew more what Fi was than real Fi users. They were here to judge, to explain how vastly superior they were compared to any of those "Feeling lunatics". They never listened.

    This is what I call a severe lack of curiosity, and maturity.

    This close-minded and arrogant attitude will lead them to nowhere.

    To be objective, you have to listen as much opinions and advices as you can and hence, try to developp a "broader [contextual] view". The more you listen, the more you'll be able to "suspend your own judgment", to reach the Epoche (?????).

    ---

    However, as a Ti user, I must confess I have my own biases. But at least, I try to be aware of them, again, if I want to be as effective as possible.
    For instance, I think that everything can ultimately be rationalized, including Feelings. This is my great sticking point with Bluewing, as I tend to think that there's no such a thing as "pure irrationality", even within "odd" functions like Fi or Ni. Every reactions we see have a purpose, a cause and an history; and this is why I found Fineline's post to be so interesting because it was both empirical and grounded into Time, past experiences.

    Nothing comes out of nowhere, and eventually, I think even Fi reactions could be modeled and predicted. But of course, the main difficulty here is that there are as much different "core values" as there are personal histories, and that is what makes Fi look so complex. And this is why we ought to especially pay attention to what any real Fi user has to say about his/her own history, his/her own perception, and respect any words they have the generosity to share with us.

    ---

    Again, I thank people like Fineline or Geoff and many others who tried to instil some substance into this thread.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Thus, the recommendation not to discuss intellectual matters with her strikes me as unwarrantable and thoroughly depreciatory.
    Deprecation unintended. Tactical advice for those similar to myself in intent and style, resulting from my noticing others going down the same dark path and becoming frustrated.

  3. #473
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I'm The funny thing is most of the "insightful" posts that were referenced actually were very logically plausible unlike her own attempts.

    It is true that the lack of structure in her thinking and the value judgments immanent in her posts are problematic for the reasons you mention. Specifically, they make it difficult for us to stay focused on ideas that we aspire to explore.

    The prudent response to this would be to continue attempting to bring clarity and rigor to the discussion as you have been doing up to this point.

    However, here, your hypocrisy and that of Flack and Nocap asserts itself with a vengeance. You all were merely stirring the pot with your invectives against her.

    Lets cut the shit already and attempt to act like rational people , shall we?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But it seems the whole thread was invaded by people who pretended to knew more what Fi was than real Fi users. They were here to judge, to explain how vastly superior they were to any of those "Feeling lunatics". They never listened.
    The unspoken intent of the OP was to derogate my position on songwriters and function use, so I had a very different reaction than if the topic were "Please explain Fi." I don't think I would have even posted if that were the case.

  5. #475
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Exactly.

    We can only approach objectivity through an intra-subjective process. That's the basic law of modern phenomenology.

    ---

    Anyway. I'm not a Fi user, and thus, I looked this thread as an opportunity to learn, to read what real Fi users would have to say about this function with their own words, their own experiences.
    I was here to gather datas, to observe and analyze.

    But it seems the whole thread was invaded by people who pretended to knew more what Fi was than real Fi users. They were here to judge, to explain how vastly superior they were to any of those "Feeling lunatics". They never listened.

    This is what I call a severe lack of curiosity, and maturity.

    This close-minded and arrogant attitude will lead them to nowhere.

    To be objective, you have to listen as much opinions and advices as you can and hence, try to developp a "broader [contextual] view". The more you listen, the more you'll be able to "suspend your own judgment", to reach the Epoche (?????).

    ---

    However, as a Ti user, I must confess I have my own biases. But at least, I try to be aware of them, again, if I want to be as effective as possible.
    For instance, I think that everything can ultimately be rationalized, including Feelings. This my great sticking point with Bluewing, as I tend to think that there's no such a thing as "pure irrationality", even within "odd" functions like Fi or Ni. Every reaction we see has a purpose, a cause and an history; and this is why I found Fineline's post to be so interesting because it was both empirical and grounded into Time, past experiences.

    Nothing comes out of nowhere, and eventually, I think even Fi reactions could be modeled and predicted. But of course, the main difficulty here is that there are as much different "core values" as there are personal histories, and that is what makes Fi look so complex. And this why we ought to especially pay attention to what any real Fi user has to say about his/her own history, his/her own perception, and respect any words they have the generosity to share with us.

    ---

    Again, I thank people like Fineline or Geoff and many others who tried to instil some substance into this thread.
    Claiming my superiority as an NT WAS NOT my intention

    Yes I may not have been as smooth or tactful as was necessary but I was trying to understand it in more concrete Ti terms, thus my initial disputes tried to highlight my confusion as an attempt to have the Fi users clarify it so I could understand it better.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #476
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The unspoken intent of the OP was to derogate my position on songwriters and function use, so I had a very different reaction than if the topic were "Please explain Fi." I don't think I would have even posted if that were the case.
    Stop acting like a child, will you?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Stop acting like a child, will you?
    No. I refer you to my statements regarding maturity.

  8. #478
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    Claiming my superiority as an NT WAS NOT my intention

    Yes I may not have been as smooth or tactful as was necessary but I was trying to understand it in more concrete Ti terms, thus my initial disputes tried to highlight my confusion as an attempt to have the Fi users clarify it so I could understand it better.
    I understand.

    But I think we should have waited a little more. Since this thread seem to have been hijacked by personal grudges, there were insufficient datas to reason with.

    All we did was to frighten and alienate the real Fi users. And indeed, should I have been one of them, I wouldn't have bothered to participate in such a mess.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But I think we should have waited a little more. Since this thread seem to have been hijacked by personal grudges, there were insufficient datas to reason with.
    Hijacked? I'm sorry, but that's just not correct, and you know how we INTPs feel about correctness. The thread title itself was a claim of superior knowledge.

  10. #480
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I understand.

    But I think we should have waited a little more. Since this thread seem to have been hijacked by personal grudges, there were insufficient datas to reason with.

    All we did was to frighten and alienate the real Fi users. And indeed, should I have been one of them, I wouldn't have bothered to participate in such a mess.
    Yes I am truly sorry I can see where I may have pushed the line. I just haven't kicked the habit of arguing something to death when I feel there is an "unfair case" against me. Admittedly that wasn't the sole reason, I was a little high strung earlier from a number of different things so all those different things just served to add fuel to the fire and if I wasn't already I was about to erupt.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

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