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  1. #231
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    It was a great thread. I learned a lot.

  2. #232
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I believe CC started the thread because we were debating typing songwriters who seemed to be using Fi to compose lyrics, and I made a case against that, among other things. I'm satisfied. I provided the information I felt necessary to the conversation, and if it isn't absorbed by others, well, there's nothing more I can do.
    Then I would in fact call you mature, because you recognized the fact that you've done all you can do and any further efforts won't really get you anywhere.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  3. #233
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    nothing to see
    Last edited by CrystalViolet; 11-01-2008 at 12:01 PM. Reason: not revelvant any more
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #234
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Um Aimahn/Jack Flak, that wasn't what I meant when I agreed that the immaturity in this thread is "obvious".

    What I meant was that all of the personal attack was incredibly immature. CC doesn't make sense! CC doesn't inspire respect! CC doesn't justify what she says! I misunderstood what she said, and that's her fault! That's because she's an ENFP! (one form of immaturity)

    Second form of immaturity: What you're describing can't be the function, because YOU DON'T HAVE THAT FUNCTION! From a typological perspective, you can't possibly use that function, it's just an invert of the extraverted form of that function (as I define it), and you're completely mistaken (because I know you better than you know yourself because I've written a book about typology)!

    Third form of immaturity: Ti is so much better than Fi for making decisions! People with Ti as their primary function are so much less likely to be delusional, because hello, Ti = logical = objectivity! ZOMG! Context disappears in the wake of a specific ability to reason!

    I would say that I haven't learnt much from this thread, and most of what I learnt was from FineLine's long post. Sigh. Why have I bothered to type this out? It'll only offend people and can't bring any benefit. Screw it. I'll post it anyway.

  5. #235
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    Um Aimahn/Jack Flak, that wasn't what I meant when I agreed that the immaturity in this thread is "obvious".

    What I meant was that all of the personal attack was incredibly immature. CC doesn't make sense! CC doesn't inspire respect! CC doesn't justify what she says! I misunderstood what she said, and that's her fault! That's because she's an ENFP! (one form of immaturity)

    Second form of immaturity: What you're describing can't be the function, because YOU DON'T HAVE THAT FUNCTION! From a typological perspective, you can't possibly use that function, it's just an invert of the extraverted form of that function (as I define it), and you're completely mistaken (because I know you better than you know yourself because I've written a book about typology)!

    Third form of immaturity: Ti is so much better than Fi for making decisions! People with Ti as their primary function are so much less likely to be delusional, because hello, Ti = logical = objectivity! ZOMG! Context disappears in the wake of a specific ability to reason!

    I would say that I haven't learnt much from this thread, and most of what I learnt was from FineLine's long post. Sigh. Why have I bothered to type this out? It'll only offend people and can't bring any benefit. Screw it. I'll post it anyway.
    Yes!!

    Honestly thats what I meant. That despite whatever the hell was being argued it would likely devolve to that and I should have recognized that before engaging. For that I am regretful.

    Yes I have sighed many times as a result of this thread.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    As for arriving at the truth, all perception is subjective, 'tis the human condition, BUT at least the NF are somewhat more honest about how feelings affect their truth.
    Of course they are!

    As far as feelings affecting truth for me, I get a lot more "truthful" the closer I get to the edge, as being nudged toward it recently... :P

  7. #237
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Is Objectivity caused by adherence to logic and laws of reasoning.?
    One attains an objective understanding of reality by thinking logically.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #238
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I also love to play with theory, for fun, but you treat it as more real than the people and behavior which are more important in this context. That doesn't follow logic if your goal is understanding the human mind, and helping others to. If your goal is simply to get the blood flowing in your brain, you might really have something.
    You have to have a theory first before you make any observations. As you first have to arrive at a place where you can do empirical testing on an idea. If you do not have a theory, and only observations you cannot have any knowledge.

    This is not what you do for fun, this is the only way to come up with ideas.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    You have to have a theory first before you make any observations. As you first have to arrive at a place where you can do empirical testing on an idea. If you do not have a theory, and only observations you cannot have any knowledge.
    This may be your philosophy, but it's not fact. I know I'm not the only one who observes, composes hypotheses based on observation, and then analyzes further. I do not need a starting theory.

  10. #240
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I paraphrase: "Thinkers debate truth; Feelers arrive at truth." .
    CC did make a statement as follows, Thinkers dispute truth and Feelers understand/sense/see the truth. It is unclear from this statement whether she meant that Feelers have conclusively attained an objective understanding of the truth, or merely attempt to do so.

    For instance, when somebody is telling me a complicated story and I am just beginning to listen, I could say I see, or I understand, meaning I am paying attention and trying to know what is going on.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I know you wouldn't make a statement like this if you realized it was conjecture, but it is. This isn't fact, and there's no evidence whatsoever to support it, only the theory of function order, which is also conjecture.

    It could hypothetically be true, and it could hypothetically be false, so I choose not to rely on it. It's just as likely that it actually is Fi, and just as likely it's something we don't understand.
    It is not conjecture.

    Consider the following.

    Axiom: Thinking, Feeling, Intuition, Sensation outline the basic tendencies of the human mind. These faculties we call the functions because they perform operations of thought. Extroversion, Introversion, Judgment and perception are attitudes as they merely describe how we perform such operations of thought.

    For example, Extroversion and Introversion directs what our cognitive processes focuses on, the inner world or the outer. Judgment and perception specify what cognitive activity we are engaging in, merely perceiving or moving towards a decision.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Axiom 2: Cognitive faculties of Thinking, Feeling, Intuition and Sensation are antithetical to each other.

    Proposition : We have earlier established that Introversion and Extroversion specify the direction of the cognitive process. Therefore because we know that an Introverted function and an Extroverted function advance in different directions they do not contrapose each other.

    Thus, for the INTP, Introverted Thinking is the dominant function. The most opposed function is Introverted Feeling because it is the Feeling faculty in the Introverted realm. Extroverted Feeling is not opposed by Introverted Thinking because it is in a different typological zone.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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