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  1. #191
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    Yes I sort of understand this "gut" concept but it is vague and it seems as if it is only remaining vague, except to those who actually use Fi a lot.
    Well I mean, it's a vague concept to begin with. People who don't use it often can probably only get so good of an idea about it. Maybe we will understand physically, chemically, biologically... if the concept can be validated at all in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeah, I've had gut reactions to things as well. I particularly remember this one time when someone was introducing me to a new manager (at a shitty job I held while still in high school), and I became completely overwhelmed by this random sinister feeling about the guy. I don't know what it was, and it certainly had no reasons attached to it, but it made me avoid him like the plague from there on out. Would that be Fi?
    Yeah that sounds like it would be. Were your sinister feelings associated with him ever validated in any way?

    Maybe it was caused by very subtle visual or audible cues that in your subconscious associate with some negative (Facial features, behavior, voice, content of speech..). And your Fi filtered that information and caused the gut reaction.

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It is true that Ti and Fi both have a problem getting divorced from reality due to their introversion, but Ti is less likely to do so because it requires logical order. Inevitably, Ti will be forced to confront the questions of the external world. Logical order is a Ti requirement, in order to maintain such order, it is inevitable that Ti will arrive at accurate factual information about the world. For this reason a Ti dom will have more motivation to observe the real world than the Fi dom. Quite simply, Ti has more adequate resources to combat the problem of aloofness.
    That's not my real-life experience at all. In all your comparisons, you're comparing a dim bulb of an Fi to some kind of brilliant scientific Ti observer. I've seen plenty of dim bulb Ti people--effectively crippled in life except in one little favorite speciality; and plenty of well-grounded Fi people who have no problem comprehending the basics of mathematics, science, and where bricks fall from.

    IOW, try starting from a level playing field.

  3. #193
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Yeah that sounds like it would be. Were your sinister feelings associated with him ever validated in any way?
    In my short time working with him I was able to determine that he was a total asshole (dictator-ish qualities, sexist). I was fired from the job shortly after his hire.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Maybe it was caused by very subtle visual or audible cues that in your subconscious associate with some negative (Facial features, behavior, voice, content of speech..). And your Fi filtered that information and caused the gut reaction.
    He was greasy.
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  4. #194
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Some articles on "gut" reactions/feelings.

    Psychology Today: Gut Almighty
    USATODAY.com - There's a gut feeling about this whole intuition thing

    They both associate it with intuition.

  5. #195
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    It's very refreshing to see a post like Fineline's.

    At last! Some unbiased intelligence combined with a broader view.
    That's what we all needed.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #196
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    That's not my real-life experience at all. In all your comparisons, you're comparing a dim bulb of an Fi to some kind of brilliant scientific Ti observer. I've seen plenty of dim bulb Ti people--effectively crippled in life except in one little favorite speciality; and plenty of well-grounded Fi people who have no problem comprehending the basics of mathematics, science, and where bricks fall from..
    IOW, try starting from a level playing field.[/QUOTE]

    Try the definition of Ti?

    That includes logical order.

    Definition of Fi does not.

    Your experiences are not relevant because at this point we are only talking about pure typology, not applied. (So we are not dealing with people yet) Before we can get to applied typology, we must make sure we understand pure typoology.Just like we need to first understand pure mathematics (or what mathematics is at the essence) before we do applied mathematics or engineering..

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    In all your comparisons, you're comparing a dim bulb of an Fi to some kind of brilliant scientific Ti observer.
    What the hell are you talking about? So far no argument from you, only hunches and anecdotes.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  7. #197
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    Your theories have to work out in real life. Otherwise they're just airy-fairy nonsense, no better than INFP theories on the love lives of elves.

    And you know as well as I do that there are plenty of nonsense, full-of-shit INTPs out there. A good grasp of logic is only worth as much as the rest of the package that comes with it.

  8. #198
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Your theories have to work out in real life. Otherwise they're just airy-fairy nonsense, no better than INFP theories on the love lives of elves.

    And you know as well as I do that there are plenty of nonsense, full-of-shit INTPs out there. A good grasp of logic is only worth as much as the rest of the package that comes with it.
    That is right they do work out. Be my guest.

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    And I have very exact prescriptions in this book concerning how applied typology is to be done, or how it is to be integrated into the scientific method.

    Your method is inadequate as you merely say such were your observations, but you make no effort to show that your observations were accurate.

    Generally a good grasp on logic makes you highly likely to know the truth. Generally the 'many INTP bullshit' theories conviction is a result of people being too stupid to understand them. Of course, I submit that there are INTPs who lack competence at the use of their dominant function, but such are rare.

    Bottom line is, it is impossible to be competent at Thinking or logical reasoning and be divorced from reality, as the ultimate goal of logic is to make sound arguments. Arguments that are not only deductively valid but also founded on true premises. Attaining deductive validity inevitably leads you to seek true premises, because inevitably the observations that you make derive from the external world. If you are to remain logically consistent, there will be no room for observations that do not derive from the external world.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  9. #199
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    Oh well, agree to disagree as always.

    Congrats on the book, by the way.

  10. #200
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It is true that Ti and Fi both have a problem getting divorced from reality due to their introversion, but Ti is less likely to do so because it requires logical order. Inevitably, Ti will be forced to confront the questions of the external world. Logical order is a Ti requirement, in order to maintain such order, it is inevitable that Ti will arrive at accurate factual information about the world. For this reason a Ti dom will have more motivation to observe the real world than the Fi dom. Quite simply, Ti has more adequate resources to combat the problem of aloofness.
    Why are you soooo predictable?

    ---

    What's interesting in Fineline's post, is the notion of "getting out of touch" or not. Your narcissism seem so disproportionate that you don't even seem aware of it, and how it contaminates every reasoning you make.
    It's a question of balance, maybe.

    Extreme Ti user are always prone to severe logical fallacies, since their arguments are not really grounded, since they lack this "broad view"; the context for instance, or being aware of their own limits.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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