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  1. #111
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    I guess I got some sort of example about Fi.

    Last summer I took the position of assistant manager at pool where I lifeguarded and thus became responsible for the majority of my co-workers behavior. One of my big things was not abusing the time off afforded by adult swim / thunder because I've always sympathized with those that wanted to swim because of my own nostalgia from days of swimming with family as a child. Instead, those under me wanted to have that extra minute off or call a clearly bogus thunder, and it just sickened me because I just didn't feel that it was right.

    Needless to say, I became the strict, unfeeling boss to my co-workers.

    The reason that Fi is generally misunderstood is because the values that are acted upon are exclusive to the operator who acts upon these values because they are pressured by some sort of emotional investment. To an observer though, the operator is merely acting out of irrationality. The observer's fault is that he/she routinely fails to notice the emotional investment driving the action by the operator.

    This thread was 2 pages shorter when I started...
    Would you kindly read my signature?

  2. #112
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Fi is the most useless function there is. Theres no point to it and most dominant users of it cannot even explain it so why should I believe in it.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  3. #113
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonic View Post
    The observer's fault is that he/she routinely fails to notice the emotional investment driving the action by the operator.]
    It is clear that the actions are a result of an emotional investment, but this does not exonerate the Fi from the charges of irrationality. Because the reasons for having such an emotional investment are illegitimate (logically invalid and often grounded on false premises), the Fi fully deserves the censure of its critics, if not ridicule. That is the point I have made to Blackmail earlier.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #114
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    <---- Has nothing to do with my Fi and everything to do with my frustration!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  5. #115
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I agree with CaptainChick. The values that F uses aren't just "passions." They're heuristics that are compiled based on experience and usually have logical order to them, it's just that the order is implicit, and the person doesn't always know WHY it's the right answer.

  6. #116
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Quite simply, feelings if left to themselves will be completely whimsical. You must organize them, they will not organize themselves.
    Are you sure?

    Again, Feelings do not appear at random, even within animals (I mean beings who are severely limited with abstract reasoning).

    Rub a cat the wrong way, and "he" may react very emotionally.
    Yet you could predict that outcome. It's just a part of the equation you have to handle, and not to arbitrarily dismiss.

    People who lack competence in logical reasoning tend to fail to do this.
    The paradox is, the more I read you Bluewing, the more I am stunned by your own subjectivity and lack of broader understanding.

    What I see is a list of half digested, questionable axioms which in return spawn ridiculously flawed conclusions.

    You're one of the most illogical and subjective person I see in this forum, even if I find you quite predictable (especially how your own narcissism affects the axioms upon which you base your reason; and you don't seem to be aware of that). I've often noticed these traits with extreme INTx members, but this never ceases to surprise me, even when it shouldn't over time.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    Fi is the most useless function there is. Theres no point to it and most dominant users of it cannot even explain it so why should I believe in it.
    No it isn't.

    Loyalty, Honor, Respect, Pride, a sense of right and wrong... these are big Fi values.


    What would our world be without that?

  8. #118
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    The values that F uses aren't just "passions." They're heuristics that are compiled based on experience and usually have logical order to them, it's just that the order is implicit, and the person doesn't always know WHY it's the right answer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Again, Feelings do not appear at random, even within animals (I mean beings who are severely limited with abstract reasoning).

    Rub a cat the wrong way, and he may react very emotionally.
    Yet you could predict that outcome. It's just a part of the equation you have to handle, and not to arbitrarily dismiss.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #119
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I agree with CaptainChick. The values that F uses aren't just "passions." They're heuristics that are compiled based on experience and usually have logical order to them, it's just that the order is implicit, and the person doesn't always know WHY it's the right answer.
    That is correct, but valuing is a process that includes not Feeling alone, but also Thinking (to give logical order to principles).


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    it's just that the order is implicit, and the person doesn't always know WHY it's the right answer.
    That is true that there is some logical order to their claims as all of us inevitably rationalize or Think, therefore create order. However, as you mention this faculty is unconscious. It takes conscious effort to make something clearly orderly. For example, you need to carefully think about a math problem to solve it right (although your unconscious mind may have some ideas). Thus, because they do not use their Thinking function carefully enough, they tend to lack order. But they do have some, as aforementioned, they do use the Thinking function unconsciously.

    Because they fail to bring proper order to their Thinking, what feels right to them, often is not.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  10. #120
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Are you sure?

    Again, Feelings do not appear at random, even within animals (I mean beings who are severely limited with abstract reasoning).:
    Animals in nature simply get used to following their instincts. They are conditioned to behave in a way that they do. This is another way to impose structure onto activities.



    Yes, there is an equation, as everybody rationalizes to some degree, even animals, the problem is, valid patterns of reasoning are easy to predict, invalid are not because they could be anything that our imagination permits. In the case of animals the equation is imposed upon them by those who train them.

    Animals lack imagination, for this reason their invalid reasoning permits little, or there are a few things they could do.

    Yet illogical people who have imagination (especially NFs) could do a myriad of different things, for this reason more difficult to predict.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    The paradox is, the more I read you Bluewing, the more I am stunned by your own subjectivity and lack of broader understanding.

    What I see is a list of half digested, questionable axioms which in return spawn ridiculously flawed conclusions.).:
    Where do you see an expression of my personal values? You ought to be carefully to avoid confusing your imagination for reality.

    The problem here appears to be that you lack the proper reasoning skills to understand the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You're one of the most illogical and subjective person I see in this forum, even if I find you quite predictable (especially how your own narcissism affect the axioms upon which you base your reason; and you don't seem to be aware of that). I've often noticed these traits with extreme INTx members, but this never ceases to surprise me, even when it shouldn't over time.
    Got me there!

    Forget what I said about the need to think logically in order to properly understand a situation, you see it all! Tell me more about me!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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