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  1. #101
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    This is exactly what I'm talking about.

    Youre getting angry with me because I'm saying what Fi does.
    Sorry to break it to you, but this is how it works.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #102
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    Just for the record, I don't actually think Fi is mysterious.
    The statement was that other people don't get it when they ask what is Fi and you try to explain it. Somehow it's taken as a grandiose, self-congratulatory statement to say that some others don't understand. But being different doesn't equate necessarily with better or worse, so I am not sure why it's being taken that way.

    My experience in life has been for others to express displeasure with me and disapproval when they didn't understand me and that's never felt all that magical and wonderful.

    Fi does feel euporic on the inside as a function and that's all that I've ever meant when calling it that. It doesn't mean that I feel I am magical and wonderful! It simply means I appreciate the inner joy that I've felt from Fi as a function.

    And it is always a joy when one meets another person who can instantly understand what I mean when I say this. Many times it happens when experiencing different works of art or music or literature and I assumed this was all CC was talking about in her OP, The joy of finding that stream that speaks to the heart.

    Rousseau was an idiot. I prefer Novalis.

    And I wash dirty socks, I don't celebrate them.

  3. #103
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post


    ZOMG!!!

    Fi respects the truth more than anything, that's right, a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g!!!!

    How?

    The essence of things are decided by the thinking faculty or the logical analysis thereof. Fi merely sends a signal which could be translated as 'feels good' or 'doesnt feel good'.

    An Fi person with a well developed Thinking function might love the truth because of their well developed Thinking faculty, but I do not at all see what this has to do with how Fi influences them.

    I am very curious to hear an explanation for how a mere fleeting feeling inspires love of the truth!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #104
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    ^^ But is Fi really responsible for that euphoria? Are you not just a human.. in awe before the only life you have?

  5. #105
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Rationale of Fi: The process of subjective valuation is entirely arbitrary as is Feeling by definition. Whatever made the strongest impression on the person is by definition valued by Fi.
    Here it is:

    You seem to think "Feelings" are by essence arbitrary and subjective. On the other hand, I would tend to see them as quite predictable, or else, there would be no such thing as psychology, sociology or neuropsychology.

    Even if like I said, those values may vary within each new Fi user, there are not random. And since they are a byproduct of context, I'd say personal experience affects them. There are objective reasons why they appear, how they are shaped and why.

    Hence I find your whole analysis to be severely flawed by your own values (paradoxical, isn't it? ).
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    ^^ But is Fi really responsible for that euphoria? Are you not just a human.. in awe before the only life you have?
    Well, it is a feeling generated from within, because of my own perceptions on things and it cannot be shared easily with others, it's sense of being intune with my own feelings and experiences not from merging with others. So this is why I assume the euphoria is coming from the use of Fi. I would see Fi as a cognitive tool that I am using to experience this. Just as my computer is not responsible for the words I am typing to you, it is however the tool I am using to do so.

    I also sort of assume it because on these boards talking with Fi's and with my ISFP friend have been the times when I have been able to find others who easily understand what it is.

  7. #107
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Here it is:

    You seem to think "Feelings" are by essence arbitrary and subjective. On the other hand, I would tend to see them as quite predictable, or else, there would be no such thing as psychology, sociology or neuropsychology.

    Even if like I said, those values may vary within each new Fi user, there are not random. And since they are a byproduct of context, I'd say personal experience affects them. There are objective reasons why they appear, how they are shaped and why.

    Hence I find your whole analysis to be severely flawed by your own values (paradoxical, isn't it? ).
    Illustrious one,

    Feelings can be predictable when they are organized by our faculties of rational cognition. Most people have some competence in this regard and for this reason are predictable to a degree.

    Quite simply, feelings if left to themselves will be completely whimsical. You must organize them, they will not organize themselves. People who lack competence in logical reasoning tend to fail to do this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    [Even if like I said, those values may vary within each new Fi user, there are not random. And since they are a byproduct of context, I'd say personal experience affects them. There are objective reasons why they appear, how they are shaped and why.).

    You are absolutely correct that the feelings are not random becuase they are a direct consequence of the external stimulus. However, when Feeling is not disciplined by Thinking properly, irrational interpretations of the external stimulus ensue which leads to radically false beliefs. When I say they are random, what I mean is, the interpretation of the cause of the situation conjured by the Fi person has nothing to do with a cause a reasonable person would envisage.

    For example, if I look at an Fi person in a stern fashion, the Fi person may think 'he hates me!'. If I were to ask them how they figured, they would provide fallacious reasoning. In most cases it would be the bare assertion fallacy, I feel this way, therefore it is. Or they would give a fallacious rationalization of the situation.

    Thus, we all inevitably act out on our beliefs. Fi's in most cases have false beliefs about their situation and therefore appear random. Or in other words, they respond not to real world situations, but to an illusory view of the real world situation. They are random strictly in this regard, or their actions are not relevant to reality. It is difficult to predict their behavior because the conclusions they draw from their experiences are based on their subjective and irrational reasoning tendencies.

    Such people have been very difficult to study for psychologists, and for this reason psychologists and sociologists insist that many studies need to be done on the same topic time and time again. Even re-done, one reason this is so is because we often lack a clear idea of what is going on in the minds of such people, exactly for the reasons I have mentioned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    [Hence I find your whole analysis to be severely flawed by your own values (paradoxical, isn't it? ).
    Where do you see the expression of my values in my post? It must be up in your Ne-Fe fluffy heavens, as they are not to be found on earth!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #108
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Here it is:

    You seem to think "Feelings" are by essence arbitrary and subjective. On the other hand, I would tend to see them as quite predictable, or else, there would be no such thing as psychology, sociology or neuropsychology.

    Even if like I said, those values may vary within each new Fi user, there are not random. And since they are a byproduct of context, I'd say personal experience affects them. There are objective reasons why they appear, how they are shaped and why.

    Hence I find your whole analysis to be severely flawed by your own values (paradoxical, isn't it? ).
    AHA!

    QFT. Thank you, Blackmail!
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #109
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    How?

    The essence of things are decided by the thinking faculty or the logical analysis thereof. Fi merely sends a signal which could be translated as 'feels good' or 'doesnt feel good'.

    An Fi person with a well developed Thinking function might love the truth because of their well developed Thinking faculty, but I do not at all see what this has to do with how Fi influences them.

    I am very curious to hear an explanation for how a mere fleeting feeling inspires love of the truth!
    Fi isn't simply an emotional product, it is an implicitly cognitive-emotional product very similar to, and perhaps even a subset of, intuition, or intuitive thought.

    Fi is a subconscious grasping of essential parts, it is the process of synthesizing wholes and meaning.

    Fi is NOT fleeting, it is impenetrable and it is anchored.

    I have thought wrong, but I have never *known* wrongly and this knowing is Fi infused.

    Gah, I just don't know how to explain it, and I apologize for that. But Fi is not analogous to simply feeling, such as one feeling anger, or sorrow, ugh, HELL NO, it's deeper and more complex than that.

    Here, my signature kind of exemplifies how I experience Fi.

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #110
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Fi isn't simply an emotional product, it is an implicitly cognitive-emotional product very similar to, and perhaps even a subset of, intuition, or intuitive thought.

    Fi is a subconscious grasping of essential parts, it is the process of synthesizing wholes and meaning.

    Fi is NOT fleeting, it is impenetrable and it is anchored.

    I have thought wrong, but I have never *known* wrongly and this knowing is Fi infused.

    Gah, I just don't know how to explain it, and I apologize for that. But Fi is not analogous to simply feeling, such as one feeling anger, or sorrow, ugh, HELL NO, it's deeper and more complex than that.

    Here, my signature kind of exemplifies how I experience Fi.

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens
    What you are describing is as follows.

    Fi has collected subjective emotive impressions of complex cognitive occurences, which are in your case an outcome of the work of Ne and Te. In itself it is mere fleeting feeling.

    Fi may be anchored if it works to support something that is anchored in itself, for example a Thinking oriented idea, such as perhaps a mathematical formula. But if Fi is given ascendancy, such a formula could not be established.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Fi is a subconscious grasping of essential parts, it is the process of synthesizing wholes and meaning.
    Fi does not do that. It merely applies passion to what has been synthesized before, which is in your case the work of Ne and Te.

    I wonder what reason there may be for believing that it is Fi that does the synthesizing!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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