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  1. #41
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus View Post
    Can you elaborate on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    udog, i'd like to hear more of what you were getting at as well. you may be on to something.
    This sums it up pretty well:

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Drag an INFJ female off to do something different and fun. Take her out hiking, fishing, skydiving (if you can manage that one). Have a fun time without any expectations. Make it a surprise outing if you wish. But that's only after the INFJ is attracted to you.
    I've known 3 INFJ women very well, and all 3 went for STPs. What I noticed being consistent is that a) they knew the STP for awhile before hand, so trust and safety were first established and b) once that bond is created, they took the INFJ out for 'adventure'.

    What qualified as adventure varied, whether it was night clubs and dancing, hiking and nature, or even just going out and about and doing fairly tame things like exploring the city and getting things done.

  2. #42
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    I recently broke up with an INFJ. I don't know if I would date one again. It was a nice, caring, and emotionally rich relationship, but it was a bit.....*yawn*. I need a challenge or a greater dynamic. I don't think I experienced any growth or learned much in our relationship and that is something I really crave when committing myself to someone. If I can't learn from someone or have my life excited by another I'd rather be single.

  3. #43
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    In my experience the INFP-INFJ relationship can be an emotional rollercoaster: joyful highs, despairing lows, has certainly never been dull. There's a constant edge there that's either exciting and inspiring or irritating and infuritating.

  4. #44
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Definitely not dull emotion wise, but that's one area of my life I don't need any more arousal in.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Silent Stars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I dated an INFJ years ago - the only guy I've ever been in love with. I loved that we didn't have to talk in order to be on the same page, like scary telepathy. But, he was moody - actually, every NFJ I know is moody - and his feelings, though internalized, really seemed to take him over, like he just couldn't handle them sometimes. It was driving my Fi up the wall. I have to say though, the chemistry was insane.
    That's how it is with my INFP (and yes, the chemistry is DEFINITELY amazing), but minus the moodiness on my part, cause I'm very level, even in stressful circumstances/touchy situations and such. I honestly think most any other INFJ guy who has had all the stuff built up in their life over time that I have, who is also highly sensitive, would have an awfully hard time having a relationship with my INFP--at least at my age, anyways--because if I wasn't nearly as stable I am, well....there are all kinds of things that could be causing difficulties, or even kill the relationship entirely, hurting both people a lot in the process, but I can see through all that quite easily to the root of everything like any emotional outbursts she has or misunderstandings that could be taken personally, among other things.

    I'm able to take care of that stuff in a way that is very firm and uncompromising as to what needs to be done, but at the same time never hurts her, and does not push her away, but rather, just gives her a little shove in the right direction, so to speak, and helping her back up if she stumbles. She's said that I'm always totally right when I do that (We could probably end up talking for hours when I get into it. It makes for very good conversational material that helps bring us closer, which I always love.), but that it's just really really hard for her; I know that she'll get better with those things in time, though it could very well take quite a while, as she also has various emotional disorders, depression, and even PTSD (most likely from her father abusing her, though she no longer has to worry about that because he was finally dealt with just this past week), and her ways of coping with those things are very much ingrained, and I'm working with her on changing them to better methods that don't just hurt herself further.

    Most of that is largely intuitive for me, though, as I seem to just naturally understand her a lot better than anyone else she knows. I am very good at understanding people in general, but with the people I can really connect with (which are few and far between), it's on an entirely different level, like to the point of frequent non-verbal understanding of exactly everything the other person is feeling, and pretty often I even end up personally feeling myself what they're feeling without having any actual knowledge of it....which can get a bit overwhelming at times (though never out of control), but I'm very glad for it because understanding her is very important to me and that does help a lot.

    I think the biggest problem for an INFJ/INFP relationship would be one or both people taking these issues (This could, of course, be an issue of varying degrees in many different relationships, but it can easily be compounded and greatly magnified in this specific type of relationship.) and trying to solve them on merely the surface level, instead of actually taking the time to see exactly WHY those reactions/perceptions/etc. happen by going backward through their thought processes each step to find the base cause and take care of that before anything else. I know a lot of times this can be initially VERY difficult and painful to do because those things are very deeply seated in their psyche, and if one or both people can't handle the pain of it, it could very well end up making the relationship impossible to be healthy, or even exist at all, but it's very much worth the effort, because taking care of all the superficial stuff is merely a temporary fix.

    One other thing I should mention is that I think an INFP/INFJ relationship would work out a lot better (this is just based on the majority of both of them being Enneagram type 4 [which seems to be more common] or 9) if one is 4 and the other is 9 (Healthy 9s are a very stabilizing factor in any sort of relationship.). If they were both the same type--especially if they're both 4s--the difficulties and insecurities that each person has would reflect off each other getting worse each time, while also creating a dynamic that is unchallenging and stagnant, but if it consisted of one of each, it would be highly complimentary. Here's what The Enneagram Institute says about that, which I think is perfectly descriptive of my relationship...except for the part about reading papers. lol

    What Each Type Brings to the Relationship
    This can be, paradoxically, both a very comfortable—and yet exciting—relationship pair. Enneagram Fours and Nines are both withdrawn and private, sensitive to the feelings and needs of the other, and empathetic to the suffering of others. Both can be tender-hearted and highly sympathetic to the suffering that they find in the world and in each other. Both want to find a deep connection with the other, and yet, both also want a certain degree of autonomy and insist on a very real degree of privacy. Both Fours and Nines can be highly creative, and as a pair they enthusiastically support the other's creativity and give the other a good deal of space in which to develop their talents. Both are idealistic and want to connect deeply with someone, feeling that they are on a search for their soul mate, the one person in the world with whom they can completely connect and be themselves.

    Both Fours and Nines also bring a sensuality and love of comfort that is noteworthy; this may express itself in their lifestyle, traveling habits, and in their sexual and other intimate activities. This is a couple that likes to stay in bed all Sunday morning, reading the papers and talking. Each brings passion and an appreciation of the other coupled with a desire to be comfortable and build a life with the other. Fours can make Nines become more intense and expressive about how they feel, while Nines can allow Fours to feel understood and accepted for who they are. Fours are good at naming feelings and pinpointing emotional states; Nines are good at creating an atmosphere of nonjudgmental acceptance, Nines may even enjoy the emotional storms and dramas that Fours occasionally get into, feeling that it adds spice to their life together. A lot of the pleasure and passion of this couple is nonverbal in the depth of the understanding that each has for the other.
    This part, however, thankfully isn't a problem for us at all.

    Potential Trouble Spots or Issues

    The biggest area of conflict between Fours and Nines is that each tends to react differently as stress increases: Fours become more emotionally volatile and demanding, while Nines become more disengaged and impossible to get through to. Fours can feel too unstable and dramatic, unpredictable and moody for Nines, while Nines can feel too unresponsive and emotionally inert, unsatisfying and uncommunicative for Fours. Nines can become angered by the Four's sense of entitlement and demands for attention and exemption. Fours can become angered by Nines' irresponsibility and apparent inability to learn from their mistakes and experiences. If conflicts and tensions increase between them, Nines can shut down more and more so that communication stops, and they give Fours the subtle message that they don't want to hear their reactions or deal with their feelings. Fours can feel that talking with Nines is like playing tennis with yourself—there's no one to hit the ball back—and there is too little relating in the relationship. Contempt for what Fours see is being boring and ineffectual can end the relationship.

    Both types look for partners who seem to embody some qualities that they feel they do not have themselves: Nines seek strong, high energy partners, whereas Fours seek partners who possess some ego-ideal that they feel they are missing themselves. In lower functioning Fours and Nines, neither energizes the other and both get stuck in a morass of inhibited anger, resentment, and irritation with each other. Fours tend to give up on the Nines (as being hopelessly inert and dull), whereas Nines tend to give up on Fours (as being too demanding and emotionally volatile).
    Enneagram 9w1 sp/so
    [sigpic][/sigpic]

  6. #46
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    This sums it up pretty well:

    I've known 3 INFJ women very well, and all 3 went for STPs. What I noticed being consistent is that a) they knew the STP for awhile before hand, so trust and safety were first established and b) once that bond is created, they took the INFJ out for 'adventure'.

    What qualified as adventure varied, whether it was night clubs and dancing, hiking and nature, or even just going out and about and doing fairly tame things like exploring the city and getting things done.
    i wonder if infj women have an easier time handling T men. i'm in a relationship with an infj but if she wasn't the feelingist intj in the world i'd lose it. gender roles perhaps, and i'm still way more self-conscious, emotionally reactive, idealistic, and intense than she is. which is weird and at times runs contrary to my expectations.

    i do agree that we infjs love having someone inspire us, incite us, get us going. to me this would be much more likely to be an enfp or entp type than a true estp adventure. there's a reason i always secretly felt a strange distaste for hemingway. quit calling her "rabbit" you condescending asshole. infj women are stronger in some ways to stand up to this, but at the same time the protective rugged individualist estp adventurer bullshit story might be more apt for them. to me i always feel a huge disconnect in terms of motivations, reasons for doing something, deepest beliefs, etc.

    enfps and entps just make me want to create something, articulate (and gesticulate), express, be spontaneous, chase after something, dance, etc. it brings out what is just latent and unsure uncertain tentative held back. i need to get my other functions activated and past their security checkpoints before my Se is free to take the reigns. it's like kundalini yoga or an orgasm, it has to build and progress, it can't just be an escape from my own private reality. i want to create a space for that reality in the world and then invite others into it.

    i do think Se is huge and gigantic tho in terms of infj expression, extraversion, and connection. Fe to me helps create discourse, explore values, beliefs, attitudes, ideas, etc and the ways in which we relate to them, in which they outline who we perceive ourselves to be, map out our own sense of self. Se helps us thaw out, get in the moment, touch, caress, merge, see, scan, feel, warm up, move, flow, etc. just dissolve like in i heart huckabees into a purer almost like religious experience. the context for infj Se is not the same as estp. they have totally different experiences in the same moment. to me i imagine feeling totally alone, but oddly inspired by the huge gap between myself and others if that were the case. tho i'd rather get there riding on teh crest of a wave, sharing, communicating/communing, composing, etc.

  7. #47
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    This sums it up pretty well:



    I've known 3 INFJ women very well, and all 3 went for STPs. What I noticed being consistent is that a) they knew the STP for awhile before hand, so trust and safety were first established and b) once that bond is created, they took the INFJ out for 'adventure'.

    What qualified as adventure varied, whether it was night clubs and dancing, hiking and nature, or even just going out and about and doing fairly tame things like exploring the city and getting things done.
    Thanks, I had a feeling this was where you were headed but I thought you might have also meant they are attracted to artistic talent. Which is of course also true.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Drag an INFJ female off to do something different and fun. Take her out hiking, fishing, skydiving (if you can manage that one). Have a fun time without any expectations. Make it a surprise outing if you wish. But that's only after the INFJ is attracted to you.
    That would SO not work for me. Granted, some of the activities you mentioned (hiking, fishing) sound like stuff I would be into (forget the skydiving, though!) and would make for a great date. But the whole concept of building a relationship by trying to get me out of my comfort zone wouldn't work for me. Take camping, for example. I like a lot of outdoor activities, but I don't like the idea of sleeping outside. I can't count the number of people who thought they could change my mind about that - like I'm wearing a "please broaden my horizons" sign on my back. They're the same people who take it as a character flaw if you don't order adventurously at restaurants.

    As far as finding Se-type activities, I like doing a lot of things that would qualify (baseball games, fairs/amusement parks, beaches...) I would much rather find something that we BOTH would enjoy doing, rather than have some guy think he's going to be my savior and Show Me The Light with some new activity. Just puts pressure on me to have fun, makes me feel boring if I don't, and makes me resent him for making me feel that way.

  9. #49
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i wonder if infj women have an easier time handling T men. i'm in a relationship with an infj but if she wasn't the feelingist intj in the world i'd lose it. gender roles perhaps, and i'm still way more self-conscious, emotionally reactive, idealistic, and intense than she is. which is weird and at times runs contrary to my expectations.

    [...]

    i do think Se is huge and gigantic tho in terms of infj expression, extraversion, and connection. Fe to me helps create discourse, explore values, beliefs, attitudes, ideas, etc and the ways in which we relate to them, in which they outline who we perceive ourselves to be, map out our own sense of self. Se helps us thaw out, get in the moment, touch, caress, merge, see, scan, feel, warm up, move, flow, etc. just dissolve like in i heart huckabees into a purer almost like religious experience. the context for infj Se is not the same as estp. they have totally different experiences in the same moment. to me i imagine feeling totally alone, but oddly inspired by the huge gap between myself and others if that were the case. tho i'd rather get there riding on teh crest of a wave, sharing, communicating/communing, composing, etc.
    I find NF women are more likely to be drawn to T men in general. (Or at least think they are. ) I've noticed a tendency for F men to be drawn more towards F women, as they want someone as tender or more tender than they are.

    The second paragraph I quoted was pretty insightful. Thanks for sharing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus View Post
    Thanks, I had a feeling this was where you were headed but I thought you might have also meant they are attracted to artistic talent. Which is of course also true.
    Oh yeah, most definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    That would SO not work for me. Granted, some of the activities you mentioned (hiking, fishing) sound like stuff I would be into (forget the skydiving, though!) and would make for a great date. But the whole concept of building a relationship by trying to get me out of my comfort zone wouldn't work for me. Take camping, for example. I like a lot of outdoor activities, but I don't like the idea of sleeping outside. I can't count the number of people who thought they could change my mind about that - like I'm wearing a "please broaden my horizons" sign on my back. They're the same people who take it as a character flaw if you don't order adventurously at restaurants.

    As far as finding Se-type activities, I like doing a lot of things that would qualify (baseball games, fairs/amusement parks, beaches...) I would much rather find something that we BOTH would enjoy doing, rather than have some guy think he's going to be my savior and Show Me The Light with some new activity. Just puts pressure on me to have fun, makes me feel boring if I don't, and makes me resent him for making me feel that way.
    Well, Se is really about taking in external stimulation via the 5 senses - being a part of the physical world. How that fleshes out varies depending on the individual. One of my friends sounded a bit like you, except even amusement parks were too much for her. However, she still did enjoy it when her ISTP took her on road trips "just because", or they'd go to the mall and walk around, run errands together, or just watch TV and comment on the show while they cuddled.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    I recently broke up with an INFJ. I don't know if I would date one again. It was a nice, caring, and emotionally rich relationship, but it was a bit.....*yawn*. I need a challenge or a greater dynamic. I don't think I experienced any growth or learned much in our relationship and that is something I really crave when committing myself to someone. If I can't learn from someone or have my life excited by another I'd rather be single.
    Find an ESTP!!

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