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  1. #291
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wow. I guess we shouldn't expect anything of P's, there's no way they could aspire to be respectable like J's? As for me, I think I'm gonna vamp it up tonight; it's Saturday, it's time to P out!
    Well, they can't be respectable in image terms, but they can accomplish certain things. We just need to expect that they can't achieve that same level of dignity in the course of accomplishing things. I mean, we can expect a basic level of politeness and such, sure.

    It's just that being flexible and adjusting to your surroundings dynamically... is inherently a less dignified approach to life. It's more effective, but less noble. It just doesn't produce as good an image. Ps can earn another kind of respect, though... they can be respected for the things they accomplish or discover, rather than their image.

  2. #292
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    ^^^ Was soll denn der Scheiß???
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  3. #293
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, they can't be respectable in image terms, but they can accomplish certain things. We just need to expect that they can't achieve that same level of dignity in the course of accomplishing things. I mean, we can expect a basic level of politeness and such, sure.

    It's just that being flexible and adjusting to your surroundings dynamically... is inherently a less dignified approach to life. It's more effective, but less noble. It just doesn't produce as good an image. Ps can earn another kind of respect, though... they can be respected for the things they accomplish or discover, rather than their image.
    I think my entire point is that you are seemingly assuming the J thing to be the standard that the P cannot aspire to. No, a P might not be able to be put together as much as some J's would prefer, but some J's are actually cool with it, and P's can use other criteria to judge acceptability and might find the J wanting. There IS no standard universally, only a standard that you are assuming as baseline without referring to it as such.

    I also think the term 'respectable' is socially and emotionally loaded, you're using an adjective that actually suggests quality of character rather than just closure/precision of image. Ps can look damned respectable and be assumed to be respectable, thanks so much... regardless of what clothes they wear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    ^^^ Was soll denn der Scheiß???
    Well, okay, maybe not LL... but every other P!!!

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #294
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What about when the typically modest P's decide to do it?
    I'm actually pretty modest. I rarely have low cut tops - I just mistakenly bought some from target that ride down and it's a bit weird. I wore a low cut top to a real life gathering once (I bought it without realizing how low it was and that was the first time I wore it) and it felt so weird to feel like people were looking at my chest. I would rather not walk around with cleavage showing. All my sisters, including the ISTJ, show more cleavage than I do.

    I almost shopped the cleavage out of the pic in my avatar (for the flickr group I was in) but decided to leave it in. I use it here cause it's funny and when I put it up and got so many positive comments on it.

    Funny enough, I didn't use a blanket when I was nursing and I whipped it out wherever I was and nursed. If people can wear string bikinis I felt that I could nurse without acting like I had something to hide.

  5. #295
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I mean what kind of sense does that make to assume that Ps cannot be respectable just because of what they wear????
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  6. #296
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think my entire point is that you are seemingly assuming the J thing to be the standard that the P cannot aspire to. No, a P might not be able to be put together as much as some J's would prefer, but some J's are actually cool with it, and P's can use other criteria to judge acceptability and might find the J wanting. There IS no standard universally, only a standard that you are assuming as baseline without referring to it as such.
    True, I suppose. But it seems from what I've gathered so far as if that standard is common enough to be worthy of concern. Image is not based on truth, you know.
    I also think the term 'respectable' is socially and emotionally loaded, you're using an adjective that actually suggests quality of character rather than just closure/precision of image. Ps can look damned respectable and be assumed to be respectable, thanks so much... regardless of what clothes they wear.
    Well, do you know of an adjective that suggests closure/precision of image without suggesting quality of character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I mean what kind of sense does that make to assume that Ps cannot be respectable just because of what they wear????
    You missed that part. I'm saying that Ps tend to be inherently less respectable by J standards, regardless of what they wear. You're linking in things that aren't related.

  7. #297
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    Or is it the case that Ps aren't respectable or that Js obsess over respectability.

    I'm very respectable. Not sure that I value it in myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    Fiver is correct, it is freeing to not have to impress someone, to be accepted for who you really are.

  8. #298
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, do you know of an adjective that suggests closure/precision of image without suggesting quality of character?
    "Immaculate" is closer than respectable. Or "crisp." I don't really know, most people don't feel the need to talk about it in these terms at all.

    Usually if I talk about J vs P clothing differences, I'll say that J's usually manage to look all put together and polished even if they're going to a picnic, while P's usually looks relaxed even when they're dressed up. That's usually all that has to be said, why are we labeling P vs J as respectable to start with?

    Both J and P can dress like tramps or dirtbags.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #299
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    I start a boobs thread and a debate breaks out!


    THAT'S NOT WHAT SHOULD BE BUSTIN' OUT!!!!

  10. #300
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    I show my cleavage all the time.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

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