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  1. #1
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Default King of the "ah yes but..."s

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    Okay this is like a version of top trumps. Basically argue like hell with the previous poster but start with "ah yes but" and then point out what your argument is. Try to keep it linear guys... too much deviation and it's just an exercise in who is wierdest and we know Sdalek will win that one hands down.

    [The opening argument had to come from me so it's going to be biased. Please PM me if you've a better idea, unless I somehow manage to hit on a popular one and people post of course (sh'ya right).]
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    Science and civilisation are the saviour of the human race. Each field has, in it's own way, advanced us as a people to the state where we are undisputed masters of our planet.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
    Likes SpankyMcFly liked this post

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Science and civilisation are the saviour of the human race. Each field has, in it's own way, advanced us as a people to the state where we are undisputed masters of our planet.
    Ah yes, but technology and science has been advancing for centuries, if not millenia, with each culture believing it has reached the pinnacle of its evolution... and yet the human race suffers with the same problems of hunger and disease and poverty and injustice and crime and xenophobic tendencies.

    Technology changes, but the human heart apparently does not. And it is the heart that motivates us. Until the heart is motivated to change and is transformed, the garb of culture might diversify and become more elegant but underneath it will remain naught but a writhing mass of rot-grubs chewing upon the carcass of the spiritually and emotionally decayed.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Ah yes, but technology and science has been advancing for centuries, if not millenia, with each culture believing it has reached the pinnacle of its evolution... and yet the human race suffers with the same problems of hunger and disease and poverty and injustice and crime and xenophobic tendencies.

    Technology changes, but the human heart apparently does not. And it is the heart that motivates us. Until the heart is motivated to change and is transformed, the garb of culture might diversify and become more elegant but underneath it will remain naught but a writhing mass of rot-grubs chewing upon the carcass of the spiritually and emotionally decayed.
    Ah yes but technology and science are pushed to achieve. The heart is waited upon like some venerated dictator. It'd be better if we had outside "interference" to motivate us.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ah yes but technology and science are pushed to achieve. The heart is waited upon like some venerated dictator. It'd be better if we had outside "interference" to motivate us.
    Ah, yes, but there are different types of motivation. Should one be pushed by a fear of punishment, the promise of incentive, or the rewards of practicing something intrinsically enjoyed? Note that while the motivation of fear pushes more people to perform the task in order to escape the prick of fear, a positive motivation such as an incentive makes the individual more motivated in the actual task, albeit less effective in making the motivation unanimous; doubly so if they are intrinsically motivated. Why not let them push themselves? Why give them the stressors of an outside push? It will only serve to confuse the ones who care, and make the ones who don't really care look like they care.

  5. #5
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    Ah, yes, but there are different types of motivation. Should one be pushed by a fear of punishment, the promise of incentive, or the rewards of practicing something intrinsically enjoyed? Note that while the motivation of fear pushes more people to perform the task in order to escape the prick of fear, a positive motivation such as an incentive makes the individual more motivated in the actual task, albeit less effective in making the motivation unanimous; doubly so if they are intrinsically motivated. Why not let them push themselves? Why give them the stressors of an outside push? It will only serve to confuse the ones who care, and make the ones who don't really care look like they care.
    Ah, yes, but to achieve any 'end' via positive stimulus, it must first be within ones mental reach, to believe they can achieve it, or else they won’t even try. Trivers is onto something with his book: The Folly of Fools: The Logic of Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life. If one can self deceive themselves into thinking they can do it and/or overestimate their capacities they are more likely to engage in 'risky' behaviors in order to achieve their 'end'. How better to learn to deceive oneself than by practicing on others and being cognizant of when it is being done to us. Is any of the afore mentioned 'true'? or did I make it up to go with the flow of this thread...

    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Ah yes but at the end of the day does it really matter if the person cares about what they are doing as long as they achieve an acceptable result? If someone does not have that internal drive to succeed they might need that push. Motivation might just not be effective enough for some, and even if it is effective, it would just seem like a waste of resources and not worth the effort to constantly have to be that persons cheerleader. If rewards do not work, turn to fear, if fear doesn't work, find a better employee. Some will do nothing, some will do the minimum to get by, and save most of the motivation for the ones who have the intrinsic drive to move forward. They are the ones who will advance technology, science, and whatever else you are aspiring to achieve. If any desire to motivate is left after you have given a good share to your intrinsically motivated top performers, then trickle it down to your bare minimum willing workers.

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