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  1. #51
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Well! At least something constructive came out of this thread.

    You can't really blame the straight people who don't understand the concept of gender roles because they're the norm and they never really had to think about the roles they play. For them it's black and white, who's who.

    Most people aren't comfortable with ambiguity so they try to put in roles in gay couples to clear that up.

    That being said I know of gay people who love the perpetuate the idea of top/bottom. It pisses me off.
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  2. #52
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    That being said I know of gay people who love the perpetuate the idea of top/bottom. It pisses me off.
    FWIW I do take on the role as a "bottom," because that's what I prefer sexually. But I don't let it factor into how I behave as a person, which is what I assume you're talking about (which is hella annoying I agree)
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  3. #53
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    FWIW I do take on the role as a "bottom," because that's what I prefer sexually. But I don't let it factor into how I behave as a person, which is what I assume you're talking about (which is hella annoying I agree)
    That's exactly what I'm talking about. Especially for virgins like me (yeah, say whatever you want) who have no idea what they like sexually, it's a bit limiting to be pushed down in a category.
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  4. #54
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I have a penis and I am cisgender.

    That clear things up?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    yeah people just need to adjust their world view i bit. i mean...sometimes things need to be expanded rather than crammed into a hole that doesn't fit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    Well! At least something constructive came out of this thread.

    You can't really blame the straight people who don't understand the concept of gender roles because they're the norm and they never really had to think about the roles they play. For them it's black and white, who's who.

    Most people aren't comfortable with ambiguity so they try to put in roles in gay couples to clear that up.

    That being said I know of gay people who love the perpetuate the idea of top/bottom. It pisses me off.
    Lolz did i just become a social pariah by not accepting a 'typc forum norm'? Well atleast a norm some would like to push down others' throats by those fashionable ultra liberals.

    Anyway in my defense i didn't call chay a girl because he is gay. I always ADMIRED his honesty and his uninhibited boldness to be act the way he wants to be by going against the 'social norm' of how males/females should be.

    I think what i said was 'you are refreshingly gay you make everyone wants to be gay'. Now before each and everyone of you scream/imply that i am a sexist homophobe again you should know i meant that as a compliment and what i implied was

    (and adding my thoughts to the ongoing discussion about gender roles dear @Nicodemus):

    I believe gender 'tendencies' exist and
    These gender tendencies due to humans being social creatures living together for centuries have resulted in gender 'roles'.

    And although i don't believe in fixed gender roles which results in sexism i do believe gender tendencies exist. Although gender roles will change eventually (as they should be because people should have their own personalities) gender tendencies probably wouldn't.

    And going back to chay, i admire that he is counter culture in regards to gender roles and isn't inhibited about them. (He is who he wants to be.)

    - - - - - - - - - - -

    Anyway you people need to understand that not everything everyone says everytime one speaks/posts is line with having political agendas, homophobia, sexism and ongoing forum topics (taking part in other threads) in mind.

    And please stop taking every opportunity to gang up on people by being presumptious to take every opportunity to act enlightened.

  5. #55
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Lolz did i just become a social pariah by not accepting a 'typc forum norm'? Well atleast a norm some would like to push down others' throats by those fashionable ultra liberals.

    Anyway in my defense i didn't call chay a girl because he is gay. I always ADMIRED his honesty and his uninhibited boldness to be act the way he wants to be by going against the 'social norm' of how males/females should be.

    I think what i said was 'you are refreshingly gay you make everyone wants to be gay'. Now before each and everyone of you scream/imply that i am a sexist homophobe again you should know i meant that as a compliment and what i implied was

    (and adding my thoughts to the ongoing discussion about gender roles dear @Nicodemus):

    I believe gender 'tendencies' exist and
    These gender tendencies due to humans being social creatures living together for centuries have resulted in gender 'roles'.

    And although i don't believe in fixed gender roles which results in sexism i do believe gender tendencies exist. Although gender roles will change eventually (as they should be because people should have their own personalities) gender tendencies probably wouldn't.

    And going back to chay, i admire that he is counter culture in regards to gender roles and isn't inhibited about them. (He is who he wants to be.)
    You're completely misinterpreting what I meant. I was referring to straight people and how they're the norm in general, and not once have I said anything about a typeC norm.
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  6. #56
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    You're completely misinterpreting what I meant. I was referring to straight people and how they're the norm in general, and not once have I said anything about a typeC norm.
    My apologies then. I am sorry.

  7. #57
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    My apologies then. I am sorry.
    It's okay.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Lolz did i just become a social pariah by not accepting a 'typc forum norm'? Well atleast a norm some would like to push down others' throats by those fashionable ultra liberals.
    No, but you turned into DiscoBeorn for a second there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I believe gender 'tendencies' exist and [...] These gender tendencies due to humans being social creatures living together for centuries have resulted in gender 'roles'.

    And although i don't believe in fixed gender roles which results in sexism i do believe gender tendencies exist. Although gender roles will change eventually (as they should be because people should have their own personalities) gender tendencies probably wouldn't.
    Then, for all intents and purposes, you agree with Coriolis and me. I would be very surprised if anyone claimed that these tendencies do not exist. We know too well that they do. The question is rather: Why do we make them important, even normative?

    You asked whether Chanaynay considers himself (psychologically) female. He obviously does not exhibit all of these tendencies. But why did that lead you to believe his gender might be female? An inflexible or normative approach to gender requires to see him as atypical, hence not male, hence female. I will not presume to tell you that is why you asked, but it is why many others would.

    Personally, I would like to keep the biological sexes (for practical purposes) and get rid of gender altogether. It is such a mess. But I am afraid we are too primitive for that yet, however many problems it would solve.

  9. #59
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Personally, I would like to keep the biological sexes (for practical purposes) and get rid of gender altogether. It is such a mess. But I am afraid we are too primitive for that yet, however many problems it would solve.



    Indeed.
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  10. #60
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Some people seem to have a hard time imagining a relationship existing without a man or a woman. My dad is always puzzling over "which one is the man" when he sees gay couples.
    Most relationships benefit from some degree of complementarity. Physical distinctions of male/female are one obvious contrast, but hardly the only or most significant one possible. To be charitable, people who ask "who's the man/woman in the relationship" might just be trying to find that complementarity when the usual rules of thumb don't apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Although, ideally both partners would not just stick to either a dominant or passive role. I think I can be both, depending on the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then, for all intents and purposes, you agree with Coriolis and me. I would be very surprised if anyone claimed that these tendencies do not exist. We know too well that they do. The question is rather: Why do we make them important, even normative?

    Personally, I would like to keep the biological sexes (for practical purposes) and get rid of gender altogether. It is such a mess. But I am afraid we are too primitive for that yet, however many problems it would solve.
    I don't mind gender so much. It can be a handy duality in an archetypal, almost artistic sense, as long as we don't assume correspondence with physical male/female.

    In general, though, I think straight folks have alot to learn from gays in how to let go of these limitations, and seeing them for limitations to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    You can't really blame the straight people who don't understand the concept of gender roles because they're the norm and they never really had to think about the roles they play. For them it's black and white, who's who.

    Most people aren't comfortable with ambiguity so they try to put in roles in gay couples to clear that up.
    Not so fast. I'm straight, and have never had trouble understanding the concept and the irrationality of gender roles. That's because I have always gone against them in ways other than sexual orientation. Gays aren't the only ones who don't fit the norm, or want it dispensed with in favor of simple individuality.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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