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  1. #21
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    You are searching hard for your identity and hope to find it in typology. What you must realize, is that there is who you THINK you are, and how you come off to others. It is important to CHOOSE who you are. Often times, who you want to be the most, is who you actually are, or it is your anima.
    Well I know this myself, but I agree with you. However when it comes to who I want to be the most.......definitely not who I am, that's where part of my issue comes in.

    However you did not state that as a certainty. The notion of how someone presents themselves, to how they think they are is one I've ruminated on for a long long while. Part of my self-indulgent whinging comes from the fact that I was never able to delude myself into an image of anything more than I appeared to be, meaning that I found it hard to either big myself up more or downplay myself less than evidence would suggest. And the evidence would suggest that the downplay has more reality for me than the bigging up.

    When I say evidence I mean examining myself in detail, not through the eyes of others but as best I can through my own self awareness. Of course memory is a trickster and about as accurate as pudding thrown against a wall for determining the unbiased truth of an event, but if you can remove the bias and look neutrally, (impossible....almost), you can see yourself and the actions you took.

    But this is just pissing on the campfire and calling it a folk song when it comes to truth, besides anyone could argue the inaccuracy of removing bias from memory, it IS impossible for us, but I try anyhow.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    So I would look into yourself at this point. its clear that you want identity, but you are going about it through a "scientific" system that you believe you can use objectively. At some point you will have to simply choose who you want to be, and tell everyone that that's who you are. It makes no difference.
    Yeah once again I agree, because I am well aware of what I am doing. Unfortunately I am trying to do the second part and have been since I was very young.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post

    But when you decide to do this, don't go around telling everyone what your type is. lol. you'll fuck typology up.
    But that's part of the entertainment.

    I'll level with you though, in truth I want to be someone who can say what he is thinking about without fear of prejudice or reprimand, and not from society although it can have a dab hand....but from myself.

    Like you said, it's up to me and me alone to choose. Hard shit...like constipation. My dad claims I am intelligent, too intelligent for my own good.

    I hazard the truth is that I am not nearly as intelligent as he thinks, nor as anyone could wish it. Average at best.

    Well I think strong self identity is part of being an intelligent person, but that's just my personal take on one aspect of it.

    Pretentious ain't it?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Well I know this myself, but I agree with you. However when it comes to who I want to be the most.......definitely not who I am, that's where part of my issue comes in.

    However you did not state that as a certainty. The notion of how someone presents themselves, to how they think they are is one I've ruminated on for a long long while. Part of my self-indulgent whinging comes from the fact that I was never able to delude myself into an image of anything more than I appeared to be, meaning that I found it hard to either big myself up more or downplay myself less than evidence would suggest. And the evidence would suggest that the downplay has more reality for me than the bigging up.

    When I say evidence I mean examining myself in detail, not through the eyes of others but as best I can through my own self awareness. Of course memory is a trickster and about as accurate as pudding thrown against a wall for determining the unbiased truth of an event, but if you can remove the bias and look neutrally, (impossible....almost), you can see yourself and the actions you took.

    But this is just pissing on the campfire and calling it a folk song when it comes to truth, besides anyone could argue the inaccuracy of removing bias from memory, it IS impossible for us, but I try anyhow.



    Yeah once again I agree, because I am well aware of what I am doing. Unfortunately I am trying to do the second part and have been since I was very young.



    But that's part of the entertainment.

    I'll level with you though, in truth I want to be someone who can say what he is thinking about without fear of prejudice or reprimand, and not from society although it can have a dab hand....but from myself.

    Like you said, it's up to me and me alone to choose. Hard shit...like constipation. My dad claims I am intelligent, too intelligent for my own good.

    I hazard the truth is that I am not nearly as intelligent as he thinks, nor as anyone could wish it. Average at best.

    Well I think strong self identity is part of being an intelligent person, but that's just my personal take on one aspect of it.

    Pretentious ain't it?
    My ENFJ friend told me he wishes he was solid snake. i told him, "then go fucking be solid snake."

    The issue is, he only SEEMS unintelligent and weak, because the majority of his life is spent shifting to the needs of others. So he never actually puts time and energy into practicing what he is weak at.

    For example, I am an ESTP. I've always viewed myself as a kind and compassionate person. Lately, I've been looking for ways to make this more apparent, for example, blatantly telling people that I am. :/

    The problem is, I'm actually not. I'm quite weak in this respect. I am lonely and a lone wolf, because I am so intensely driven, that I completely steamroll my social life. "No time for you guys, I need to learn how to do this gymnastics move."

    So, ultimately, if you are ESFJ or whatever, you'll probably struggle with this for the rest of your life. Other peoples' opinions are going to distract you.

    Meanwhile, I'm SEARCHING for others' opinions. I take being myself TOO FAR, to the point that it alienates me from other people (analogous to E4 behavior, haha). I suspect you could be the opposite of this. You take others' opinions too far to the point that it distracts you from defining yourself.

    So in my efforts to fit in, I read typology, I read what tests tell me, I read about how I come off, I ask people what I am. Not because I want to believe them, but because I'm oblivious and need to find out in order to fit in with the rest of society.

  3. #23
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    My ENFJ friend told me he wishes he was solid snake. i told him, "then go fucking be solid snake."

    The issue is, he only SEEMS unintelligent and weak, because the majority of his life is spent shifting to the needs of others. So he never actually puts time and energy into practicing what he is weak at.

    For example, I am an ESTP. I've always viewed myself as a kind and compassionate person. Lately, I've been looking for ways to make this more apparent, for example, blatantly telling people that I am. :/

    The problem is, I'm actually not. I'm quite weak in this respect. I am lonely and a lone wolf, because I am so intensely driven, that I completely steamroll my social life. "No time for you guys, I need to learn how to do this gymnastics move."

    So, ultimately, if you are ESFJ or whatever, you'll probably struggle with this for the rest of your life. Other peoples' opinions are going to distract you.

    Meanwhile, I'm SEARCHING for others' opinions. I take being myself TOO FAR, to the point that it alienates me from other people (analogous to E4 behavior, haha). I suspect you could be the opposite of this. You take others' opinions too far to the point that it distracts you from defining yourself.

    So in my efforts to fit in, I read typology, I read what tests tell me, I read about how I come off, I ask people what I am. Not because I want to believe them, but because I'm oblivious and need to find out in order to fit in with the rest of society.
    I'm not sure about shifting to the needs of others. No one in my immediate family or social circles would describe me as such, in fact most would see me as quite selfish.

    As for the opinions of others, yeah that could be true, but when I was younger I had no such qualms. I hated being confined by others and their definitions of shoulds and oughts, to be myself as I understood it and to do what I wanted was the important drive in my mind.

    I think my current self-consciousness is more likely a fallout from those younger days and they aren't even that much younger.

    Also lets not pretend here that what you wrote is anything other than a humble bragging of the quality of your individual drive. I may have wished for things, in some manner.

    But I'm not a natural wisher and I think, or rather thought, that anything a person wanted to achieve should be driven towards on their own will and not from wishing. However I realised my naivety long ago, I thought with enough effort people could change, I was somewhat right, where I was wrong was thinking that the change would be something that could be controlled.

    People cannot move beyond their trappings, at least, not those that are deeply entwined in who they are. I doubt you will ever stop being a 'lone wolf' individual stud, you might improve your social relations in accordance with society, though why anyone would actually want to do that is bizarre to me.

    Society should be asked of in what it can provide for you, not the other way around.

    But in any case in that exact same way, I will never stop being an insane, mutable roller coaster of personalities with no centre pole on which to hang my hat, (nothing to do with typology of course).

    Environment was beaten into me and my only course of action is be angry and frustrated at the knowledge that no matter what I would do or try, I will always be this way.
    That's maddening in the extreme, so perhaps the best thing to do would be to channel my insanity into helping change those problems that need changing, never at home in the world, but at least doing something of use before death. That's only a thought though.

    Fuck now do I understand why people say things like "I hate people". The fairness of genetics is like a despot when it comes to life satisfaction.

    You are born happy, or sad, or mental, or aggressive or suicidal or murderous and so on...it's just we create a rationality of why that should be so. To me now it seems as clear as new cut glass that people really do have a disgustingly structured route in life. The route of one event after another and from the day you are conceived it starts and doesn't stop, not even with your death as it meanders around and around influencing others.
    All the way back to the start, whatever that is and maybe that isn't even true, probably a cycle. So how do you shut that out? To drive towards some singular view or objective?

    It's like having rain in your head and it never shuts the FUCK UP! So that's who I am really; a shout in a brain full of rain.

    Pff people aren't really any more mature than they were as children, such a stupid word, they just learn better coping mechanisms, (read: delusions), that allow them to justify in retrospect, even when we are supposedly thinking ahead, we have actually already decided, it's just our so called conscious mind hasn't realised it yet.

    So much for conscious thought, such a sophistry.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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