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  1. #11
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    You only need to be a little bit better than most of the class. There are (probably) entitled kids in that class whose parents will raise hell if they do poorly, so if everybody in the class sucks at it, the bar will be lowered. Or that's generally how it works.
    Interesting. Hadn't considered this, but you're probably right. To me grades always seemed so objective and absolute, but now that I'm older, I can see how this might not be the case. Teachers have to keep their jobs too.

    And how lame is it that parents complain about teachers giving bad grades? This is one reason why I don't want to be a teacher.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  2. #12
    your resident asshole
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    You only need to be a little bit better than most of the class. There are (probably) entitled kids in that class whose parents will raise hell if they do poorly, so if everybody in the class sucks at it, the bar will be lowered. Or that's generally how it works.
    The grades in all Spanish classes are not curved because the exams are very easy. It's still crazy hard to get a 4.0 because you have to get a 98% in the class (essentially having flawless exams).

  3. #13
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    And how lame is it that parents complain about teachers giving bad grades? This is one reason why I don't want to be a teacher.
    In my experience, the most naive students try to become teachers. It seems only appropriate for parents to check and double-check their work.

  4. #14
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    In my experience, the most naive students try to become teachers. It seems only appropriate for parents to check and double-check their work.
    Good point. My mental image when I read that was some mom coming in and complaining about her little Jimmy getting a D on his math test, even though his answers were obviously wrong. Ugh, makes my blood boil. But maybe that never actually happens.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  5. #15
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Good point. My mental image when I read that was some mom coming in and complaining about her little Jimmy getting a D on his math test, even though his answers were obviously wrong. Ugh, makes my blood boil. But maybe that never actually happens.
    I think if I ever had children, their teachers would soon come to loathe me.

  6. #16
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    The grades in all Spanish classes are not curved because the exams are very easy. It's still crazy hard to get a 4.0 because you have to get a 98% in the class (essentially having flawless exams).
    Even if the grade isn't curved, it's still kind of a competition/comparison. Are the other students all going to do better than you at this assignment? Hopefully, it's not worth a huge percentage of the grade.

    My daughter is taking Korean (because she has a thing for taking the first year of any language she has access to, like she has to collect them all or something, lol) and the professor is visiting for the year from Korea. He gave them an assignment to memorize a whole bunch of pages in the text book in a matter of a couple of days, which Korean students could easily do. My daughter was kind of freaked out, but then someone talked to the professor and explained to him that American students are too stupid to memorize that much stuff and he cut the requirements down drastically. My daughter thought it was cut down a bit too much, but she is having trouble with pronouncing the language, so she isn't complaining.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think if I ever had children, their teachers would soon come to loathe me.
    What made me mad was when my kid was getting full credit for turning her math homework in whether any of it was correct or not and then flunking all the tests because she didn't know what the hell she was doing. But she was getting a good grade, so I didn't realize she wasn't learning anything. I'd rather my kids get bad grades when they aren't learning so I know something is messed up.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #18
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Good point. My mental image when I read that was some mom coming in and complaining about her little Jimmy getting a D on his math test, even though his answers were obviously wrong. Ugh, makes my blood boil. But maybe that never actually happens.
    I have seen errors in textbooks, which propagate into the worksheets and lessons. I have seen assignments asking nonsensical questions, or not accepting legitimate answers that the teacher just hadn't thought of. Many K-8 teachers especially lack confidence when it comes to science, oversimplify when it comes to social studies, and put form over function in language. It behooves parents to keep tabs on all this if they want their kids to receive an education and not just an indoctrination.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    What made me mad was when my kid was getting full credit for turning her math homework in whether any of it was correct or not and then flunking all the tests because she didn't know what the hell she was doing. But she was getting a good grade, so I didn't realize she wasn't learning anything. I'd rather my kids get bad grades when they aren't learning so I know something is messed up.
    What do you think of the common practice of giving lower grades when an assignment is turned in late or is messy/incomplete? It creates uncertainty as to whether Suzy is getting a D in math because she is having a hard time understanding math, or because she has not developed good work habits. Either cause would need to be addressed, but the solutions are different in each case.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #19
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    What made me mad was when my kid was getting full credit for turning her math homework in whether any of it was correct or not and then flunking all the tests because she didn't know what the hell she was doing. But she was getting a good grade, so I didn't realize she wasn't learning anything. I'd rather my kids get bad grades when they aren't learning so I know something is messed up.
    Well, yes. I thought that was the whole point of grades, not to make kids feel bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Many K-8 teachers especially lack confidence when it comes to science, oversimplify when it comes to social studies, and put form over function in language. It behooves parents to keep tabs on all this if they want their kids to receive an education and not just an indoctrination.
    You're probably not wrong with this. Social studies, certainly, there is oversimplification. Science is not emphasized at all in k-8, even though I hear a lot about it being "forced" on people who aren't any good at it. I was really excited about when I would get to learn science, but by the time school finally got around to teaching it, I knew all the stuff they taught me already because I'd read about most of it on my own. I guess we don't need to worry about it any more because we don't have Russians to beat.

    I will disagree about language, because language only works if everyone agrees on it. A major pet peeve of mine is seeing people in their 20s (or older) who actually had an education, and have been to college, just being careless because it's "real" or something. Just irritates the hell out of me. And yeah, I guess that does make me a snob, but people actually aspire to go to college and can't make it, so have a little bit more respect though NOT TYPING IN RUN ON SENTENCE IHELP I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO I CAN'T USE COMPUTERS AND THINK PUNCTUATION IS SUTPID PLEAES GO EGHT THINGS WORKING NOEWER I DONT CARE IF I RESEMBELR AN IDIOT WHEN I SEND EMAZILS.

    Typos, and people without a solid educational background are something different. I mean just not giving a fuck about being intelligible as all. I suppose the above thing is intelligible, but it's really irritating to read.

    What do you think of the common practice of giving lower grades when an assignment is turned in late or is messy/incomplete? It creates uncertainty as to whether Suzy is getting a D in math because she is having a hard time understanding math, or because she has not developed good work habits. Either cause would need to be addressed, but the solutions are different in each case.
    Are you saying they should take off for lateness or messiness, or are you saying that they shouldn't?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I will disagree about language, because language only works if everyone agrees on it. A major pet peeve of mine is seeing people in their 20s (or older) who actually had an education, and have been to college, just being careless because it's "real" or something. Just irritates the hell out of me. And yeah, I guess that does make me a snob, but people actually aspire to go to college and can't make it, so have a little bit more respect though NOT TYPING IN RUN ON SENTENCE IHELP I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO I CAN'T USE COMPUTERS AND THINK PUNCTUATION IS SUTPID PLEAES GO EGHT THINGS WORKING NOEWER I DONT CARE IF I RESEMBELR AN IDIOT WHEN I SEND EMAZILS.

    Typos, and people without a solid educational background are something different. I mean just not giving a fuck about being intelligible as all. I suppose the above thing is intelligible, but it's really irritating to read.
    I am not objecting to the teaching of spelling and grammar, just teaching that focuses on rote style, without the accompanying understanding. For instance, most high school students cannot identify the part of speech and purpose of every word in an ordinary sentence. Expository writing is introduced too late, and overemphasizes formulaic approaches over making the form follow the funtion. Also, reading comprehension activities are often poorly worded or too inflexible in acceptable answers. Reading lists for older kids lack diversity, and are depressingly similar to what I was required to read at that grade level. In short, stagnation and superficial treatments.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Are you saying they should take off for lateness or messiness, or are you saying that they shouldn't?
    I'm saying the parent should be able to understand clearly where the deficiency lies. This either should be explained in comments from the teacher, or separate grades should be given for things like work habits and classroom demeanor, and actual subject mastery.
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