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  1. #81
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    What do you guys think of this quote?
    "People go to church for the same reasons they go to a tavern: to stupefy themselves, to forget their misery, to imagine themselves, for a few minutes anyway, free and happy... [As a] jealous lover of human liberty, deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him."- Mikhail Bakunin
    I think Bakunin has no business telling other people why they go to church. He's welcome to his opinion, but it's clearly not definitive in any way, shape, or form... it's merely his opinion. Believers might as well sit in their pews and tell Bakunin why he doesn't believe in God.

    And talk of abolishing God if he exists -- isn't that rather non-sensical as a logical statement? If he's God, he's God; he sets the rules; he's absolutely in control of everything; there's no way he could be abolished.

    It's a cute quote that puts a neat little poetic spin on Voltaire's phrase, but really, it is more of an expression of Bakunin's personal feelings, rather than anything that could logically be accomplished.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Hallmark card faith makes me queasy...
    Agreed, Shoebox Greeting Card faith would be a heck of a lot funnier.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #82
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    "No Donnie, these men are nihilists."

    Anyways, agnostic here.

  3. #83
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Is there really any point in discussing this anymore? Believers and unbelievers obviously don't accept the same method for determining whether something exists or not. How much more bandwidth are we going to waste rehashing the same tired arguments?
    Meh, I don't consider it wasted bandwidth. I don't WANT this to be resolved. I think it would take the thrilling inaccessibility of it away. I LIKE thinking about it, wondering, and not knowing. I like talking about it (provided the discussion stays civil- I'm done with godVnotgod flamewars). In a way, I'd be disappointed if that were taken away with proof on either side, to be honest.

    Something Night said in another thread has resonated with me ever since. It was something like "you may find the possibility of the existence of god to be more meaningful if you accept its improbability."
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #84
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    I'll never understand why a hyperdimensional space alien makes people feel so warm and fuzzy.

  5. #85
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Where'd you get "warm and fuzzy" from that? I've never really felt warm fuzzies for the divine and it makes me uncomfortable when people try to force me to. I approach it as an intellectual puzzle that isn't solvable.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #86
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    Not you specifically, other people practically cream their pants over their faith/spirituality. I really don't understand the point of believing in these things. It has no practical value, all they seem to get out of is warm fuzzy feelings, maybe a sense of purpose. It's also really frustrating to hear people talk so fondly about something which is at the top of my list of Major-Psychotic-Fucking-Hatreds. So very confusing.

  7. #87
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Not you specifically, other people practically cream their pants over their faith/spirituality. I really don't understand the point of believing in these things. It has no practical value, all they seem to get out of is warm fuzzy feelings, maybe a sense of purpose. It's also really frustrating to hear people talk so fondly about something which is at the top of my list of Major-Psychotic-Fucking-Hatreds. So very confusing.
    Ditto.

  8. #88
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    What the hell?

    WORST. THREAD-CONCEPT. EVER.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    It's also really frustrating to hear people talk so fondly about something which is at the top of my list of Major-Psychotic-Fucking-Hatreds. So very confusing.
    It sure is. But I've gotten used to people getting off on belittling others, so you'll get used to this.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    What do you guys think of this quote?

    "People go to church for the same reasons they go to a tavern: to stupefy themselves, to forget their misery, to imagine themselves, for a few minutes anyway, free and happy... [As a] jealous lover of human liberty, deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him."

    - Mikhail Bakunin
    I actually go to church for quite the opposite reasons. To deny myself, to be made whole through my suffering, to submit myself before humanity. Through that I get some time of freedom and happiness. I do from time to time feel encouraged by thinking of my potential in being of service by being a vessel and not of my own. When I abolish myself, many of the chains of life that would otherwise bind me fall away.
    (asking such a question strictly non-church going people wouldn't provide fair representation to your answer. not trying to move in on your turf)

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Is there really any point in discussing this anymore? Believers and unbelievers obviously don't accept the same method for determining whether something exists or not. How much more bandwidth are we going to waste rehashing the same tired arguments?
    Since you seem like an empirical evidence guy, I'd be curious to know the exact number of posts that you wrote against religion did it take you over a specific amount of time come to this conclusion?
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I respect only those atheists who are atheists for similar, if not the same reasons as me.

    Like-minded atheists that I've had the opportunity to either communicate with personally, or more passively through reading, all seem to share similar rational thoughts derived from what has been, and is, their independent thinking.
    It sounds like you're looking for positive affirmation for your position against faith. Is that correct? What more were you looking for or expecting to gain?

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