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  1. #501
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Yes proof by assertion! The studies were flawed! I don't present evidence for the fact that they are flawed but they just are because I don't agree with the studies! Please present evidence or that statement is empty.
    Where the hell did I say they were wrong simply because I said so? I already pointed out numerous flaws in one of my previous posts, namely how they choose to measure something as complex as religiosity.

    Much of the time it comes down to things like church attendence. Yet all that really measures is church attendence, not religiosity per se. Americans tend to place greater emphasis on church attendence than other people, like those in Latin America - who usually attend church mostly for special occasions. Then in Europe we have the case of church attendence being down, but the number of pilgrimages to holy places(like Fatima, Lourdes, Vatican, etc) is at a high number.

    A few years ago I read one study showing that Americans are more religious than European because they're more likely to read the Bible literally than Europeans. But taking the Bible more literal is not a sign of being more religious. I'm Catholic, and we tend to interpret the Bible more allegorically. And America has a stronger religious tradition of literalism than Europe.

    So who really is more religious than the other? You really can't say. You have to take into account so many different contexts, it begs the question as to how the hell can you make a standardized definition of religiosity in order to accurately measure it to begin with.

    And this is just ONE flaw I commonly find in these kinds of studies.

    Yes, correlation does not always imply causation, which is why I had considered the nature vs. nurture argument but came to no valid conclusion.
    Yes this must be among your favorite hobbies: throwing around random arguments that have no valid conclusion.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Where the hell did I say they were wrong simply because I said so? I already pointed out numerous flaws in one of my previous posts, namely how they choose to measure something as complex as religiosity.

    Much of the time it comes down to things like church attendence. Yet all that really measures is church attendence, not religiosity per se. Americans tend to place greater emphasis on church attendence than other people, like those in Latin America - who usually attend church mostly for special occasions. Then in Europe we have the case of church attendence being down, but the number of pilgrimages to holy places(like Fatima, Lourdes, Vatican, etc) is at a high number.

    A few years ago I read one study showing that Americans are more religious than European because they're more likely to read the Bible literally than Europeans. But taking the Bible more literal is not a sign of being more religious. I'm Catholic, and we tend to interpret the Bible more allegorically. And America has a stronger religious tradition of literalism than Europe.

    So who really is more religious than the other? You really can't say. You have to take into account so many different contexts, it begs the question as to how the hell can you make a standardized definition of religiosity in order to accurately measure it to begin with.

    And this is just ONE flaw I commonly find in these kinds of studies.
    Hmm, you very easily could have taken the point that IQ is not an accurate measure of intelligence and I would have agreed with you but you chose a different position. Thats the position I would've taken anyways...

    Where the hell did I say they were wrong simply because I said so?
    That is the nature of the proof by assertion fallacy, it is that one has no reason to assert a claim because of lack of evidence. Why would someone assert a claim without evidence at their side? Alot of the time it is infered that it is done because someone's own beliefs are being attacked which is why they commit the fallacy (this is describing it in a defensive technique). However it is not always the case, in your case you just forgot to present the evidence.

    how they choose to measure something as complex as religiosity.
    Imo, a simple 0-10 scale would be sufficient. 0 being no religiousness at all, 10 being absolutely positive of your religion and active attendence to the practices of said religion.

    Remember, studies to not accurately depict all people (that would be generalization fallacy), there are many exceptions.

  3. #503
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Hmm, you very easily could have taken the point that IQ is not an accurate measure of intelligence and I would have agreed with you but you chose a different position. Thats the position I would've taken anyways...
    That's certainly another piece in the much larger puzzle.

  4. #504
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    When people say "Who would Jesus bomb?" they say it with the assumption that he wouldn't bomb anyone, which is mostly true. If you read the Old Testament God doesn't use a lot of explosives, he's more into bio/chem warfare. Plagues, fire and brimstone, stuff like that. If Jesus were alive today he'd use anthrax, weaponized smallpox, white phosphorous. The MOAB? Fire from heaven? Totally Jesus.

  5. #505
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I don't think Jesus would bombard anyone, actually. His dad was an impuslive mass murderer, but Jesus was pretty nice.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #506
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    Having a woman clean his feet with her hair? Dude was a pig. Oh, and sending demons into pigs then killing the pigs? Just mean.

  7. #507
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Having a woman clean his feet with her hair? Dude was a pig.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #508
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    Religious people who believe in hell or something similar and believe that the punishment is justified are morally equivalent to Nazis and those who advocate genocide.

    Yeah I Godwinned the thread. Do I look like I give a shit?

  9. #509
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Why am I an atheist?

    Well, for many reasons, but on a slightly tangential note:

    I happen to find that many *hardcore religious* theists, are just attempting to escape/conceal their nasty true natures by clinging on to some external code/club/cult that is widely accepted as being "good".

    This sickens me.

    Here is a self-proclaimed Catholic, being oh so Christianly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I could, but even that would be too kind to you.

    In the spirit of Christian love; I promise that after both of us pass away I will alleviate your suffering in the eternal fires of hell by pissing on you from in Heaven.
    LOL ^
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #510
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Religious people who believe in hell or something similar and believe that the punishment is justified are morally equivalent to Nazis and those who advocate genocide.

    Yeah I Godwinned the thread. Do I look like I give a shit?
    Awwww, this is sooooooooo true!!!

    I MISS YOU, WHERE ARE YOU??!?!?!?

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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