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  1. #351
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Note: this thread is not intended for theists, or theists posing under the intellectual safety of agnosticism, or atheists who are atheists simply due to the fact that they are nihilists.

    That being said...

    Most people believe in the existence of a god.



    However, I do not, because I cannot, i.e. nothing would lead me to believe that such a thing exists. I feel connected to others who, like me, cannot believe in the existence of a supernatural power as far as their common sense and use of logical reasoning dictate.

    Random thought:

    I cannot stand people who confuse atheism with nihilism, grrrr they are sooooo not the same thing.

    Duh, all nihilists are necessarily atheists, but not all atheists are nihilists.
    I believe there is a higher power than human beings in this universe; I think it would be pretty darned egotistical to think human beings are the be-all, end-all.

    That being said, "GOD" in the sense of religion is a human construction. Even if God did exist, this power surely does not exist in the way we have constructed it.

    Religion is a human system, like any other model, method, system, or philosophy. So it is prone to all the weaknesses of an human system.

    However, I do believe in spirituality even though it is very hard for me to quantify this sense. What I mean is - I think there is more to us than what is physical. Whether or not this thinking is based on a construct of self-preservation to avoid having to deal with the thought of permanent death??? No I do not think so. It is clear to me that my physical presence will end one day - at best, in less than 90 years. However, I believe some aspect of us is beyond mere rational or logical comprehension.

    Let me call it "energy," so that we can discharge it from any potentially religious connotations. Some people call it soul, force, or spirit. Let's call it energy.

    I believe the collective energy of all life, including that of human beings, animals, plants, elements, all kinetic and passive energy of this world we call "EARTH", as well as all other forms of life and energy - known and unknown - elsewhere, makes up a bizarre cosmic whole. This cosmic whole is an "energy" - what we call "mass." This is a collective that is ever-expanding, ever-developing. It is absolutely fascinating, therefore, - if the theory is true - that science maintains that "mass" can neither be created nor destroyed - just reformed. It seems to confirm my theory that there is a cosmic whole.

    This cosmic whole, seen as a whole and by virtue of its wholeness, logically constitutes more than its constituent parts. So, this, perhaps, could be considered a "god," because what other word has man created to describe such a monumental concept?!

    However, I prefer to consider it a "cosmic whole." This energy, this mass, this "cosmic energy" is so powerful, so unbelievable, so utterly intangible yet all-encompassing, that most human beings, just to be able to grasp it, must quantify it. How else do you explain something like that? By virtue of applying words to the matter, you are quantifying it.

    So it is really no wonder that ancient folks called this force, this energy, this mass "god"!!!! They had no other words for it. To explain a concept, you need a word and idea. Or you have ideas, but no words to express it. That is the problem with antiquity.

    Even nowadays we do not have the words to express this monumental idea.

    So let's just go easy on ourselves and call this force a "cosmic whole."

    That's why I think Jung was onto something when he said there was such a thing as collective consciousness. Those who can tap into it for split seconds and have monumental breakthroughs are what are called "geniuses." They reach a sort of "god-like" or "divine" status, as do all those people who have reached what many call "spiritual enlightenment." These people tapped into collective consciousness....to the cosmic whole.

    BUT!!! If you are asking what I think about religion - pffffft, they are as much constructs and systems as anything else. A manner in which people are organized and socialized. Some systems are political, some are economic, others are religious.

    That's not to say they have no value, but I surely do not need it. Some types do, however, and it is essential that they have it. Take it away, and these people would probably do things we would rather not imagine.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  2. #352
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Select all

    Paste into Word

    Find "God"

    Replace with "Quetzalcoatl" or "Zeus" or "Aten" or "Uhura Mazda" or "Brahman" etc.

    Comedy gold
    "God" denotes an eternal creator that brings all that is temporal into being. The other words you mention, often referred to as gods, do not denote eternal creators. But Plantiga's intent was not to establish the truth of theism, but to show both how dismally Dawkins failed at showing how belief in an eternal creator was a delusion, and how Dawkins' own position was philosophically untenable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    What is the purpose of Theism?

    What is the purpose of Anti-Theism (not to be confused with Atheism)?

    What does it mean to be Agnostic?

    ...
    Does Falcarius know you're using a nudie pic of his cousin as your avatar?

    The purpose of an anti-theistic argument is clear enough.

    But the purpose of theism and the purpose of anti-theism? They're both worldviews, (as is atheism), so it could be said that their purpose is to give a conceptual framework capable of interpreting experience.

  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    an eternal creator that brings all that is temporal into being.
    Like this guy?


  4. #354
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    The FSM is not a creator. The FSM is a dualistic god, (not unlike Plato's demiurge). It is a designer that brought order to the preexistent material that was present in the gigantic beer volcano and maintains this order with his noodly appendage.

    We can know that the FSM does not exist because it is clear that it is not the case that both matter and spirit are eternal.

  5. #355
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    EYE am your god now.

  6. #356
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    Even if there is a god I don't see what difference it makes. If it's an impersonal god who doesn't even know that we exist then we're in the same position as if there is no god. If it's a personal god who is interested in us he's an asshole for not fixing all our problems and allowing us to suffer for a "higher purpose" or some bullshit.

  7. #357
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Even if there is a god I don't see what difference it makes. If it's an impersonal god who doesn't even know that we exist then we're in the same position as if there is no god. If it's a personal god who is interested in us he's an asshole for not fixing all our problems and allowing us to suffer for a "higher purpose" or some bullshit.
    There are two types of suffering. There is suffering that is caused by outside circumstance--such as working under a blazing hot sun, catching a nasty cold, losing a limb, or worse. Then there is the suffering that accompanies meaninglessness which leads to boredom, and boredom which leads to excess, and excess, (e.g., drunkeness/drug abuse, sexual addictions, indulging in rage, etc.), which leads to guilt.

    Theists often interpret all suffering as a consequence imposed by God; e.g., the curse imposed in the garden was punishment for eating a piece of fruit. But this view makes God into an arbitrary tyrant, i.e., an asshole. This view also fails to realize that outward, circumstantial suffering is often beneficial; it makes us immediately aware that something is wrong, and it calls us to stop what we are doing and take stock of the situation; circumstantial suffering is a call to stop and think. As such, it is a call back from meaninglessness--the natural consequence for not thinking. As a call back from meaninglessness, the imposition of circumstantial suffering is an act of mercy because it recalls from a meaningless and boring life of constant excess that never satisfies.

    So, God is personal, and he is working to fix our problems.

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    So, God is personal, and he is working to fix our problems.
    He can fix my problems by giving me a steak and a blowjob.

  9. #359
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Come on over to the wish thread. You may get faster service, albeit more surly. (Excepting the OT God.)
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #360
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    There are two types of suffering. There is suffering that is caused by outside circumstance--such as working under a blazing hot sun, catching a nasty cold, losing a limb, or worse. Then there is the suffering that accompanies meaninglessness which leads to boredom, and boredom which leads to excess, and excess, (e.g., drunkeness/drug abuse, sexual addictions, indulging in rage, etc.), which leads to guilt.
    There is pain and there is suffering, and though suffering is indeed painful, not all pain necessarily qualifies as that of being a manifestation of suffering.

    Given your examples, your depth of understanding regarding suffering falls, lol, painfully short.

    Suffering, ugh, I cannot linearly describe what it is and what it means.

    To be continued, I guess....
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

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