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  1. #141
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    An intellectual that lacks respect is no intellectual at all.

  2. #142
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    What does that even mean?

    Normally I'd complain about how epigrams are as bad as stereotypes when it comes to deterioration of perceived truth, but I don't want people to think I'm formulaic.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Also, Seanan, why do you have a problem with us griping about religion?
    I don't have a problem with griping per se but some of this is pretty rawly emotional... just spewing venom really.
    I just don't find that constructive or beneficial to anyone... in fact, just as devisive as religions arguing with each other. I also take exception to singling out a specific religion for obvious reasons.. smacks of prejudice and nulls any comments that might otherwise be constructive.

    Edit: going offline will return later

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I don't have a problem with griping per se but some of this is pretty rawly emotional... just spewing venom really.
    I just don't find that constructive or beneficial to anyone... in fact, just as devisive as religions arguing with each other. I also take exception to singling out a specific religion for obvious reasons.. smacks of prejudice and nulls any comments that might otherwise be constructive.

    Edit: going offline will return later
    On the topic of religion my emotions are pretty raw and I like spewing venom. I'm not interested in being constructive or benefiting anyone. I am very prejudiced against Christianity, they controlled my mind for 19 years and I'm not happy about it.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    I am very prejudiced against Christianity, they controlled my mind for 19 years and I'm not happy about it.
    I'm very glad you freed yourself. Maybe just hurry up on spewing that venom and then releasing yourself from it entirely or as much as possible. Though my family is, I was never a part of Christianity but I made it clear I was against it by aboutttttt age 10? But I'd been arguing with priests, family or people in general for some time.

    Anyhoo, yea. Down with Religion.

  6. #146
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I don't have a problem with griping per se but some of this is pretty rawly emotional... just spewing venom really.
    The two sentiments expressed here are starkly different from one another.

    Griping involves spewing venom.

    I just don't find that constructive or beneficial to anyone... in fact, just as devisive as religions arguing with each other.
    I don't see a mission statement anywhere...

    CC did you intend this to be constructive?

    Of course... can you really have a constructive conversation when religion or faith or just plain ol' god, is the subject of discussion?

    No. No one is capable of creating anything more poignant than the next person, otherwise we'd have figured this out.

    Unfortunately it's not a sudoku. We can't just keep coming up with a few small answers every which way and expect that we'll eventually be able to fill in the gaps. Trust me, if we could it'd've happened already. The only way we'll ever know, is by observing.

    I can say that with utmost confidence because, I've been in over a hundred arguments, either as a participant or a spectator, and at this point, it's become obvious that we're at some kind of a roadblock. After countless hours even days and lives of individuals spent figuring out if god exists (not even being concerned over what he does or his interest in the universe) we've still got nothing.

    The interesting thing about knowledge is, true enough, not having evidence doesn't prove anything negatively, but it does lend strong support to that side of the argument.

    As for me, I don't much care if there is. He's going to do what he wants anyway. Why should I bother altering my own course of behavior just because there's the remote possibility of some asshole exists way the fuck out there who hasn't said boo or yay to anything I've done yet.

    And that people would continue to doubtlessly believe in something simply because it makes the feel better even though there's little to no rational wiggle-room for this divinity is quite unsettling to me.

    I think my complaints are justified as per the above.
    we fukin won boys

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    The two sentiments expressed here are starkly different from one another.

    Griping involves spewing venom.

    I don't see a mission statement anywhere...

    CC did you intend this to be constructive?

    Of course... can you really have a constructive conversation when religion or faith or just plain ol' god, is the subject of discussion?

    No. No one is capable of creating anything more poignant than the next person, otherwise we'd have figured this out.

    Unfortunately it's not a sudoku. We can't just keep coming up with a few small answers every which way and expect that we'll eventually be able to fill in the gaps. Trust me, if we could it'd've happened already. The only way we'll ever know, is by observing.

    I can say that with utmost confidence because, I've been in over a hundred arguments, either as a participant or a spectator, and at this point, it's become obvious that we're at some kind of a roadblock. After countless hours even days and lives of individuals spent figuring out if god exists (not even being concerned over what he does or his interest in the universe) we've still got nothing.

    The interesting thing about knowledge is, true enough, not having evidence doesn't prove anything negatively, but it does lend strong support to that side of the argument.

    As for me, I don't much care if there is. He's going to do what he wants anyway. Why should I bother altering my own course of behavior just because there's the remote possibility of some asshole exists way the fuck out there who hasn't said boo or yay to anything I've done yet.

    And that people would continue to doubtlessly believe in something simply because it makes the feel better even though there's little to no rational wiggle-room for this divinity is quite unsettling to me.

    I think my complaints are justified as per the above.
    No, it probably will never be solved. That's okay with me. I'm not religious but not because I don't buy any of it. I'm not because I recognize that the power elite within the religions use them for their own ends. But I do put some stock in the basic tenants of all of them. Logically speaking and with a somewhat scientific approach, it cannot be denied that nearly all religions from their beginnings (minus the added trappings by the power elite) and in widely disparate cultures and historic periods are in agreement on the basics. They hold the same grain of "truth" expressed differently depending on the culture but saying the same things. That's not coincidence and any open minded person who is actually seeking truth must look at that though most are comfortable rejecting it out of hand when it suits their agenda. Most people look for what separates rather than what harmonizes and that's exactly what the powerful wish them to do. That is why the atheist/theist divide is so sad. Atheism has become just another warring religion in my book and its making all the same mistakes. As for "spewing"... I'm sure not going to put any stock in what is being said by someone who does that anymore than I would a preacher trying to tell me I was going to hell because I picked my nose in church.

  8. #148
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    No, it probably will never be solved. That's okay with me. I'm not religious but not because I don't buy any of it. I'm not because I recognize that the power elite within the religions use them for their own ends. But I do put some stock in the basic tenants of all of them. Logically speaking and with a somewhat scientific approach, it cannot be denied that nearly all religions from their beginnings (minus the added trappings by the power elite) and in widely disparate cultures and historic periods are in agreement on the basics.
    That only means that it's the best humans can come up with. I'd rather take stock out of human ability, than put stock into their foolish designs.
    They hold the same grain of "truth" expressed differently depending on the culture but saying the same things.
    There could be other factors influencing this.
    That's not coincidence and any open minded person
    Open minded and rational are often separated. Additionally, most peoples' construction of open minded is pretty twisted. Maybe mine is too, but theirs is for certain.

    Regardless unfortunate as it is we don't get points for being open minded. The world works by rational laws. We can get into a theological debate, but as I've said, it's useless and I won't be involved. Also this isn't the thread for that.
    who is actually seeking truth must look at that though most are comfortable rejecting it out of hand when it suits their agenda.
    So are you arguing with me or are you arguing with the entire decidedly-non-religious community?
    Most people look for what separates rather than what harmonizes and that's exactly what the powerful wish them to do.
    Didn't George Carlin say that?
    That is why the atheist/theist divide is so sad.
    What's truly sad is that humans piss around trying to figure it out, not that they attach themselves to one side or the other.
    Atheism has become just another warring religion in my book and its making all the same mistakes.
    That's not a very open minded comment.


    I changed my mind. It's not sad that people try to figure it out. It's just humiliating. What arrogance. That we think we can, with our apricot sized brains figure out to a T whether or not there's something that doesn't technically exist in this universe.

    Speculation is one thing. Speculation can be fun. Actual searching is nothing but triviality or arrogance because If there is a god, it obviously wants to be left alone, unless it's some kind of backwards pedant, in which case we're screwed anyway.
    we fukin won boys

  9. #149
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    So are you arguing with me or are you arguing with the entire decidedly non-religious community?

    Neither.



    Didn't George Carlin say that?

    No, I did... he may have... don't know.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post

    On a related note: I'm not an atheist because I like being an atheist or because I somehow became "entrenched." It's just that I wasn't raised in a faith as a child, so as an adult I'm going to need something pretty damned solid before I can buy into that particular philosophical nightmare.
    Well if youre interested I suggest you read "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis. And just so you dont think I'm being biased, C.S. Lewis used to be an atheist. And a very good one at that.

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