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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    For some reason I have this habit of ending up in arguments with people who are...cognitively limited. I get in a disagreement with one of these people and even though I know they just aren't that smart and they probably can't understand what I am talking about, I'll continue to try to convince them of my argument. Why do I even care? So what if they don't understand, that isn't my fault, so why do I relentlessly try to convince them? It's so frustrating that I would waste all that energy and I don't even know why.
    Because you like having an audience of worshippers at the altar of your brillance.

    It is not enough that they listen to you, they have to agree with you too. So even if they accepted your ideas, but kept their own, you'd not be fully satisfied, isn't it.

    It is validation you seek. If the ideas were not accepted by others, you'd doubt their value, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I've figured it out! I'm smarter than everybody and the fact that people disagree with me is just evidence of their stupidity! It's so clear now.
    Subjectively clear. Not objectively clear.

  2. #42
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    I know it frustrates me to try to correct the misunderstandings created by ignorance which I see fueling the flames of hatred burning down all of the Earth's forests of reasonings and little specks of intelligent shrubbery and all the pretty flowers of potential goodness.....

    I can't speak for other NFs but I know that INFJs find it hard to stop, when they feel/think someone is misgiven about anything, as they want to help them in understanding their reasonings, right or wrong though the INFJ may be. So it's too much Fe-ing wanting to connect to other's...it's when (if? ) we lose perspective, by getting so heated and hurt b/c people misunderstood our good intentions, that we forget how to better connect with others so as to make them come to reason.

    You can't help everyone, as you can't always be right about everything (though maybe you are...). It's when we become emotionally mature that we can stop being emotionally unhealthy when people rub us the wrong way b/c they're too fucking stupid/ignorant/stubborn to get it..*ahem*..and then you can learn how to 'overcome' them (influence them...) into understaning why they're wrong (seeing it your way..) and everyone is happy they realised they were ignorant and all that bad jazz(you won...)
    Yes, that seems to be the issue. My emotional immaturity is getting the better of me and I can't let go because I genuinely want people to see it the way I see it. If only people put in half the effort in understanding my perspective as I put into understanding theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Yeah it's true. INTJs will just write you off, but INFJs will keep coming at you. They will concoct new and creative ways to make you see the light. They can't seem to let it go. I admire that in a way, but sometimes they are either wrong or fighting so hard to win the battle that they lose the war. Great people, but sometimes they just need to lighten up. Let the small stuff slide.

    Attachment 1325
    That's the problem! It's soooo hard to let it slide. I guess I need to learn to pick my battles, and that probably means I need to learn to acknowledge what is truly important.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Yes, that seems to be the issue. My emotional immaturity is getting the better of me and I can't let go because I genuinely want people to see it the way I see it. If only people put in half the effort in understanding my perspective as I put into understanding theirs.



    That's the problem! It's soooo hard to let it slide. I guess I need to learn to pick my battles, and that probably means I need to learn to acknowledge what is truly important.

    Perhaps the question is, are you understanding them only to correct them, or are you truly understanding them?

    Usually, it is counterproductive to lead someone somewhere they do not want/are not ready to go? Same with points of view. Live and let learn?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Because you like having an audience of worshippers at the altar of your brillance.

    It is not enough that they listen to you, they have to agree with you too. So even if they accepted your ideas, but kept their own, you'd not be fully satisfied, isn't it.

    It is validation you seek. If the ideas were not accepted by others, you'd doubt their value, isn't it?
    Damn ENTPs and their ability to cut me to the quick. Yes, I suppose I need others to validate my ideas for me. Is that so wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Perhaps the question is, are you understanding them only to correct them, or are you truly understanding them?
    It's difficult to tell. I've become blinded by the desire to argue my point of view, so I no longer know whether or not I'm being truly understanding of their point of view.

    Usually, it is counterproductive to lead someone somewhere they do not want/are not ready to go? Same with points of view. Live and let learn?
    That...makes sense.

    Where were you when I spent 4 weeks arguing with Libertarians on the limitations of objectivism!
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Damn ENTPs and their ability to cut me to the quick. Yes, I suppose I need others to validate my ideas for me. Is that so wrong?
    It is, as you proclaimed to us ALL , that you are emotionally immature when you let people get to you. Validate for yourself, for whom else do you need to know your brilliance if others can't naturally see so? Show by example, sooooo hard though, I know, and perhaps people will understand...if not, no sweat. You're better for trying, if maturely done, and perhaps can learn 'what went wrong' so as to become better next time when opposed.

    and if you took my advice, you'll know just how to concoct your cult...err people who'll validate you and think as you please.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    It is, as you proclaimed to us ALL , that you are emotionally immature when you let people get to you. Validate for yourself, for whom else do you need to know your brilliance if others can't naturally see so? Show by example, sooooo hard though, I know, and perhaps people will understand...if not, no sweat. You're better for trying, if maturely done, and perhaps can learn 'what went wrong' so as to become better next time when opposed.

    and if you took my advice, you'll know just how to concoct your cult...err people who'll validate you and think as you please.
    When I was younger, I had a cult following online, which I felt was proof of my greatness. Talk about a delusion of grandeur. :rolli:

    Hm...but now I see the light. I have been a terrible example of my ideals by letting my ego get the better of me. To show an argument isn't just to prove the merits of your reasoning, but also to demonstrate the merits of that reasoning in your behavior. Alas, I have gone from smarter than everyone to an idiot in the blink of an eye. The validation for my ideas should not come from whether or not others are capable of sharing them, but whether they hold water in practice. I suppose I can chalk this one up as another lesson from that ironic mistress known as humility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    When I was younger, I had a cult following online, which I felt was proof of my greatness. Talk about a delusion of grandeur. :rolli:

    Hm...but now I see the light. I have been a terrible example of my ideals by letting my ego get the better of me. To show an argument isn't just to prove the merits of your reasoning, but also to demonstrate the merits of that reasoning in your behavior. Alas, I have gone from smarter than everyone to an idiot in the blink of an eye. The validation for my ideas should not come from whether or not others are capable of sharing them, but whether they hold water in practice. I suppose I can chalk this one up as another lesson from that ironic mistress known as humility.
    I didn't have cults so much as stalkers during all of my ages and all ages of others... Even when I emotionally "disconnected" during depression as I still was 'nice' to a point and couldn't STOP giving advice when people MYSTERIOUSLY asked me...And I had NO clue why as I LOOKED mean on PURPOSE so people would leave me alone! I couldn't stop myself from reacting Grrr.

    ....One girl I knew from during the Depression Era 'stalked' me after I "saved her as no one else had" from this 6' bully became so invested in my "charity" and "advices" she never left me alone....called incessantly...."...I love you....." when barely knowing me....and much other scariness And she's but one. Even after I blocked her on MSN, she added me years later under a 'new one'. I suspected her... and against better judgement responded(damn curiousity! ) to find it was her....acting as though I'd never left...I freaked and got a new email addy....never mind a sociopath I dealt with for years online and met in RL....who really DESTROYED people close to me as we were younger than this person. Trying to "save" everyone (it was I who realised the multiple personalites + more) resulted in Fe-breakdown. This is the first time in years I've ventured back online into a 'community' of any sort.

    So cults online....probably easier for us to have b/c we have better access to more people...and we can 'focus' one at a time instead of being bombarded in RL all at once....excluding IM chats....*Si recalls nightmare*

    Edit: It was weird when that girl's bully later hit on me a little later in HS....but sometimes...that's happened...

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    For some reason I have this habit of ending up in arguments with people who are...cognitively limited. I get in a disagreement with one of these people and even though I know they just aren't that smart and they probably can't understand what I am talking about, I'll continue to try to convince them of my argument. Why do I even care? So what if they don't understand, that isn't my fault, so why do I relentlessly try to convince them? It's so frustrating that I would waste all that energy and I don't even know why.
    Maybe it's because you enjoy debate and persuasion as a sport. I do.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Damn ENTPs and their ability to cut me to the quick. Yes, I suppose I need others to validate my ideas for me. Is that so wrong?
    But you love us anyway.

    It is not wrong, if you're genuinely seeking feedback and engagement why an idea works, or doesn't. But if you're arguing with a closed mind stuck on a J track towards your Fe queening trophy, perhaps it is not true validation you seek, but affirmation, if that makes sense? Then the question is why as an I, you're determining the worth of your ideas and in a sense, yourself, through an external vs internal perception.

    It's difficult to tell. I've become blinded by the desire to argue my point of view, so I no longer know whether or not I'm being truly understanding of their point of view.
    Perhaps the thing is to consciously arrest the need to Fe straightaway, but leave Ni open to explore first.


    That...makes sense.
    Of course! We're ENTPs! We pretend to know everything.

    Where were you when I spent 4 weeks arguing with Libertarians on the limitations of objectivism!
    Too limited by your own subjectivity towards said Libertarians, to notice me, I'd wager.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    When I was younger, I had a cult following online, which I felt was proof of my greatness. Talk about a delusion of grandeur. :rolli:

    Hm...but now I see the light. I have been a terrible example of my ideals by letting my ego get the better of me. To show an argument isn't just to prove the merits of your reasoning, but also to demonstrate the merits of that reasoning in your behavior. Alas, I have gone from smarter than everyone to an idiot in the blink of an eye. The validation for my ideas should not come from whether or not others are capable of sharing them, but whether they hold water in practice. I suppose I can chalk this one up as another lesson from that ironic mistress known as humility.
    Or mistresses known as ENTPs. We accept Amex, Visa or cash for moments of enlightenment.

    Yups. Words without actions are just words. What is an ideal but in the living of it?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo
    Hm...but now I see the light. I have been a terrible example of my ideals by letting my ego get the better of me. To show an argument isn't just to prove the merits of your reasoning, but also to demonstrate the merits of that reasoning in your behavior. Alas, I have gone from smarter than everyone to an idiot in the blink of an eye. The validation for my ideas should not come from whether or not others are capable of sharing them, but whether they hold water in practice. I suppose I can chalk this one up as another lesson from that ironic mistress known as humility.
    Hey, Kiddo, assuming you are really are serious and frustrated of your being emotionally immature(I doubt you are fully so, though, maybe sometimes.. ), I wrote about INFPs and INFJs on how CP can evolve them into being Emotionally Healthy from learning to become Emotionally Mature and how they devolve into being Emotionally Unhealthy by being Emotionally Immature. Just focus on your INFJish self and see if it clicks for you.

    But if all fails and you can't change! then always maintain the stances that I wrote in one line, which can be mis/perceived three ways , within my Signature. It is " I know you feel I have flaws but I know you're feeling flawed. " and so you can use your Fe in three differently patronizing ways against all others! (I'm so devious) keke

    And, the worst of the worst, when rejected beyond all reprieve, you can always do this as saddness helped me to write:"swallow your tongue to mouth happiness." (I was 'inspired' from reading/taking part in one of your threads...so you're not the only one who gets frustrated! )Also, it can be seen in two differently sad and depressing ways! So it's play along by not speaking and when you realise you're playing along with mimicking others with what they want to hear..

    But I'd rather you just become emotionally healthy so when you are so

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