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Thread: The Rant Thread

  1. #1631

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    That's why I said symbolic.
    I introduced consistency into the interpretation. If you insist on the apple being his penis, then the father is probably impotent, because he needs something separate from his body to penetrate his son's shell anus.

  2. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I introduced consistency to the interpretation. If you insist on the apple being his penis, then the father is probably impotent, because he needs something separate from his body to penetrate his son's shell anus.
    Wutt?

    That doesn't seem to make sense. The apple in the back is representative of another object in another place which - in this situation - is to be taken as part of an unconscious wish to be dominated. That's the theory I mentioned as an anecdote.

    To make it even clearer (short of making a flow chart )
    level 1: apple in back
    level 2: anal penetration
    level 3: father taking back his position of power and Gregor getting his desired punishment for being the bug of a son he thinks he is

    If I remember the book correctly, the apple gets stuck in his back, not his anus. Therefor it shouldn't matter that the apple is not a penis, because the back isn't an anus either. Actually, I think that -for anatomical reasons - the father would have some trouble if he tried to actually get through the bug's shell. But he probably wouldn't want that because his bug-son disgusts him, which is kind of the point to begin with.
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  3. #1633

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Wutt?

    That doesn't seem to make sense. The apple in the back is representative of another object in another place which - in this situation - is to be taken as part of an unconscious wish to be dominated. That's the theory I mentioned as an anecdote.

    To make it even clearer (short of making a flow chart )
    level 1: apple in back
    level 2: anal penetration
    level 3: father taking back his position of power and Gregor getting his desired punishment for being the bug of a son he thinks he is

    If I remember the book correctly, the apple gets stuck in his back, not his anus. Therefor it shouldn't matter that the apple is not a penis, because the back isn't an anus either. Actually, I think that -for anatomical reasons - the father would have some trouble if he tried to actually get through the bug's shell. But he probably wouldn't want that because his bug-son disgusts him, which is kind of the point to begin with.
    The shell, as a part of Gregor's body, stands for his anus. The apple, which is not part of his father's body, is supposed to stand for his father's penis. There is inconsistency. Instead of his own penis (or his hand, his leg, a rolled-up newspaper), he uses an apple to penetrate his son's symbolic anus. Since the apple is distinct from his own body, it is most likely a symbolic dildo.

  4. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The shell, as a part of Gregor's body, stands for his anus. The apple, which is not part of his father's body, is supposed to stand for his father's penis. There is inconsistency. Instead of his own penis (or his hand, his leg, a rolled-up newspaper), he uses an apple to penetrate his son's symbolic anus. Since the apple is distinct from his own body, it is most likely a symbolic dildo.
    Ahh, now I see what you mean. What would be the difference between an apple and a rolled-up newspaper though= Other than the suggestive shape of the newspaper? Oka, technically the newspaper would be a prolongation of his body and a substitute of a body part...but so is a dildo. He throws the apple instead of pressing it through the shell - is that the problem? Would it be better if he boxed the bug and broke the shell in the process? That would be body part on body part, but totally lacks all elegance. The apple is elegant and the idea that it is stuck there and slowly rots in his back seems like a very plastic depiction of how that rotten relationship is eating him up from inside. I always found it to be a very powerful imagery.

    Or maybe we could come up with an alternative where something that is not part of the father's body penetrates something that is not Gregor's body...but then it would get increasingly harder to even make the connection ("oh, he moves a grandfather clock into Gregor's room, ho ho, I wonder what that could mean, wink wink") ...

    So yes, if it really sticks out to you that (a part of) Gregor's body stands for (a part of) Gregor's body while the father uses a tool on the surface level, I can see how that could be perceived as lobsided.

    PS: This conversation is getting weird
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  5. #1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    PS: This conversation is getting weird
    And much longer than necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Ahh, now I see what you mean. What would be the difference between an apple and a rolled-up newspaper though= Other than the suggestive shape of the newspaper? Oka, technically the newspaper would be a prolongation of his body and a substitute of a body part...but so is a dildo. He throws the apple instead of pressing it through the shell - is that the problem?
    Indeed. The newspaper is disputable, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Would it be better if he boxed the bug and broke the shell in the process? That would be body part on body part, but totally lacks all elegance. The apple is elegant and the idea that it is stuck there and slowly rots in his back seems like a very plastic depiction of how that rotten relationship is eating him up from inside. I always found it to be a very powerful imagery.
    I very much like the apple thing; it is the dildo which I found lacking in elegance. But I do not believe it to be a symbolic penetration, so there is no apple dildo (or penis) for me anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Or maybe we could come up with an alternative where something that is not part of the father's body penetrates something that is not Gregor's body...but then it would get increasingly harder to even make the connection ("oh, he moves a grandfather clock into Gregor's room, ho ho, I wonder what that could mean, wink wink") ...
    Stop Ne-ing! I am trying to finish this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    So yes, if it really sticks out to you that (a part of) Gregor's body stands for (a part of) Gregor's body while the father uses a tool on the surface level, I can see how that could be perceived as lobsided.
    Wonderful.

  6. #1636
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    For the record: I mentioned that theory because I found it so laughable back then that I still remember it more than a decade later. So I'm not really invested in the theory, just interested in your structural criticism. And while I understand how that lobsidedness could bother you, it somehow doesn't bother me at all, because I just see one penetration supposedly standing for another and that is even and elegant. To me it makes no difference what is attached to whose body.

    Stop Ne-ing! I am trying to finish this here.
    So you don't want to hear that other theory then about the framed picture of the lady in the fur coat that Gregor has hanging in his room, do you?

    Okay then, I'll just shut up. If anybody's looking for me , I'll be moping in my room. Sniff!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  7. #1637

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    For the record: I mentioned that theory because I found it so laughable back then that I still remember it more than a decade later.
    I got that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    So I'm not really invested in the theory, just interested in your structural criticism. And while I understand how that lobsidedness could bother you, it somehow doesn't bother me at all, because I just see one penetration supposedly standing for another and that is even and elegant. To me it makes no difference what is attached to whose body.
    That is interesting. I will reflect on it in my blog.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    So you don't want to hear that other theory then about the framed picture of the lady in the fur coat that Gregor has hanging in his room, do you?
    I am happy to read about it in your blog.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Okay then, I'll just shut up. If anybody's looking for me , I'll be moping in my room. Sniff!
    Should I send for Victor?

  8. #1638
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    I'm glad to have a job but these people I work with now are the most idiotic, disorganized, lazy, self-congratulatory bunch of morons I have ever met! Seriously......They tell me to slow down and not work too hard! WTF??????
    I'm never wrong, I'm just sometimes less right

  9. #1639
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    The truth is that this house operates much better when you're not around.
    No screaming, no ranting, no threats, no negativity, no tension, no ridiculousness.
    Thank you for making my day exceptionally shitty with your presence.
    a little less conversation, a little more action please
    . captain's blog.

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