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Thread: The Rant Thread

  1. #1161
    Senior Member Array Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Is achieving personal satisfaction an act of altruism?
    No

  2. #1162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    No
    Thank you for your honesty. That's why I don't consider myself altruistic, even though I donate a goodly chunk to charitable causes. I too get personal satisfaction from helping others but I'll be damned if I'm going to help people due to societal pressure.

  3. #1163
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    That's why charity doesn't work properly. People who only give in regards to their "own personal satisfaction" tend to only give to groups they identify with, like other whites, and people tend to give more to children, where as helping adults would be just as rational in the big picture. That's why social programs are in place, for people who only give for their personal satisfaction, and not for the sake of simply alleviating suffering and/or contributing to the overall social good.
    "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul." - Edward Abbey

    "In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." Daniel 10:2-3


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  4. #1164
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Is achieving personal satisfaction an act of altruism?
    In tangible terms, it can be. If one is brought satisfaction by being charitable with their wealth, for example, they are being tangibly altruistic because they are clearly sacrificing material good. They do that to gain the immaterial good of personal satisfaction, therefore their motivation is only intangibly selfish.

    It is true to say that we are all selfish only in-so-far as we include abstract feelings as rewards and punishments. Even empathy is selfish because it is merely a reaction to one's own undesired experience of pain that just happens to be triggered by seeing someone else's pain. The manifest result it tends to create, however, is altruistic. People can be altruistic if we base it solely off of observable, manifest actions and consequences, and I don't see a practical way to base a socio-economic model off of much more than that.

    So for all intents and purposes people can be altruistic.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #1165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    In tangible terms, it can be. If one is brought satisfaction by being charitable with their wealth, for example, they are being tangibly altruistic because they are clearly sacrificing material good. They do that to gain the immaterial good of personal satisfaction, therefore their motivation is only intangibly selfish.

    It is true to say that we are all selfish only in-so-far as we include abstract feelings as rewards and punishments. Even empathy is selfish because it is merely a reaction to one's own undesired experience pain that just happens to be triggered by seeing someone else's pain. The manifest result it tends to create, however, is altruistic. People can be altruistic if we basing it solely off of observable, manifest actions and consequences, and I don't see a practical way to base a socio-economic model off of much more than that.

    So for all intents and purposes people can be altruistic.
    My perception is that it's all a win/win, instead of one way giving. That's why I don't believe that people can be altruistic, at least in its purest sense, same as I don't believe in unconditional love.

    Some are giving since they don't want to be ostracized. Some are giving, because they get some form of satisfaction from it, whatever that might be. Others do it to look good. No matter how you twist it, there's return to the giver.

    People love to romanticise their personna.

  6. #1166
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    My perception is that it's all a win/win, instead of one way giving. That's why I don't believe that people can be altruistic, at least in its purest sense, same as I don't believe in unconditional love.

    Some are giving since they don't want to be ostracized. Some are giving, because they get some form of satisfaction from it, whatever that might be. Others do it to look good. No matter how you twist it, there's return to the giver.

    People love to romanticise their personna.
    But an immaterial one. And that's just it. Immaterial reward is the only reason a win/win scenario is ever possible. It's also the only reason a transactional counterpoint to conflict theory can ever exist. In strictly material matters, it can only be a zero-sum game, and thus giving is altruistic.

    In case it's not clear, I'm not denying that every is acting on selfish interest if we include the aim of feeling good as a selfish interest. What I am saying is that there's a difference between material and immaterial rewards that is too profound to ignore.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #1167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    But an immaterial one. And that's just it. Immaterial reward is the only reason a win/win scenario is ever possible. It's also the only reason a transactional counterpoint to conflict theory can ever exist. In strictly material matters, it can only be a zero-sum game, and thus giving is altruistic.

    In case it's not clear, I'm not denying that every is acting on selfish interest if we include the aim of feeling good as a selfish interest. What I am saying is that there's a difference between material and immaterial rewards that is too profound to ignore.
    So if a person refuses to give love in a relationship, they're not selfish?

  8. #1168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    So if a person refuses to give love in a relationship, they're not selfish?
    I'm afraid I don't understand what giving love means, operationally, so I cannot answer that.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #1169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm afraid I don't understand what giving love means, operationally, so I cannot answer that.
    Love is immaterial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Love is immaterial.
    Yes, so how do you give it?

    Two people can claim to love each other. They can feel love for each other. But outside of rather new technology that's starting to let us see these feelings manifest in brain activity, there's no actual observation of this love. There are only actions we (perhaps incorrectly) associate with love. So to my knowledge, the only way to give love in the sense we usually think of it, would fall into exchanges of material rewards.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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