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  1. #101
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    Well first of all, if you don't really understand typology that well yet, then you can't be very sure they're NTPs.
    I saw this one coming. I understand it well enough to be sure of that. I simply am borderline J/P in my behaviour, which is why I haven't made up my mind definitively.

    Sheesh, the things you are extrapolating really are quite extreme here based on the very little I am saying. I guess this is uncurtailed Ne (woo did I score an MBTI point!?)
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #102
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I saw this one coming. I understand it well enough to be sure of that. I simply am borderline J/P in my behaviour, which is why I haven't made up my mind definitively.

    Sheesh, the things you are extrapolating really are quite extreme here based on the very little I am saying. I guess this is uncurtailed Ne (woo did I score an MBTI point!?)
    I'm just explaining the background and trying to quell a lot of common concerns. I've had this discussion with a lot of people and I have an idea of what objections they tend to raise.

    As for P/J: Many people think they are "borderline P/J" based on MBTI's oversimplification of Js as organized and Ps as disorganized, but that's not the case.

    Js organize externally but have more flexible private perspectives. "Have a plan for getting your life organized first--as long as that's in place, you can look at things privately however you want."

    Ps leave the external world open to abrupt change on a whim, but insist on a rigidly organized internal judgment system. "Get your personal principles worked out first--then you'll be able to change and adapt to whatever life throws at you when the time comes."
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #103
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Danger Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER View Post
    I wonder what their true intentions and reasons for posting are
    I wonder what my true intentions and reasons for posting are.

    For instance, yesterday I deleted two posts because I was feeling afraid but I don't know yet why I was feeling afraid.

    Although I am glad I listened to my feelings and acted on them even though I didn't know why. And I am making this post to find out why.

    At first I thought is was my posting style and my ideas because my style and ideas come in for regular criticism. But I don't think this is the answer.

    I don't think this is the answer because it is an external explanation, and because I think the answer lies in myself.

    The closest I can get for deleting the posts is that I was repeating myself. And when I start repeating myself it is as though I have lost myself.

    But writing myself as I am occurring is enlivening and is always a surprise, but it is a bit like walking on a razors edge as I don't know how I will be received.

    Quite often I am not understood and attract ad hominem attacks. On the other hand I do also receive ad hominem support.

    So I think I deleted the posts because I felt I was entering the danger zone. But what this danger zone is, I am not too sure.

    At school I would enter the danger zone quite a bit and my response was to withdraw and try to figure out what was wrong. And in particular, what was wrong with me.

    But having explored myself quite a bit since then, I don't think there is much wrong with me. But every now and then a deeper part of me warns me I am entering the danger zone.

    I think the danger zone is very important to me, and perhaps the Gestalt technique of becoming the danger zone and speaking to and with the danger zone within me might be helpful.

    But at the moment I think I have reached the limit of my understanding and perhaps I should go away and experience my feeling more in the hope of understanding them.

  4. #104
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm just explaining the background and trying to quell a lot of common concerns. I've had this discussion with a lot of people and I have an idea of what objections they tend to raise.

    As for P/J: Many people think they are "borderline P/J" based on MBTI's oversimplification of Js as organized and Ps as disorganized, but that's not the case.

    Js organize externally but have more flexible private perspectives. "Have a plan for getting your life organized first--as long as that's in place, you can look at things privately however you want."

    Ps leave the external world open to abrupt change on a whim, but insist on a rigidly organized internal judgment system. "Get your personal principles worked out first--then you'll be able to change and adapt to whatever life throws at you when the time comes."
    ok, that's a pretty good description actually, thanks.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  5. #105
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Evangelists

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I have an idea of what objections they tend to raise.
    My objection is quite simple.

    It is possible to look at MBTI from a personal perspective or from a social perspective.

    Looking at it from a personal perspective makes sense because MBTI is self validating. And we all like to have our perceptions validated. And MBTI plays on this.

    However in seventy years MBTI has never been validated itself by a double blind test. And particularly in psychology a double blind test is essential to establish validity.

    And so I think it is very fair to say that MBTI has never been validated.

    And yet we have the paradox that MBTI seems to validate our perceptions of ourselves.

    So all I can conclude is that MBTI gives us an illusion of understanding.

    So then I look at the social side of MBTI and ask what social institutions use the illusion created by MBTI.

    And it turns out that the USA military has been using this illusion to control recruits since WW II. And USA business has been using this illusion to control employees for about the same length of time.

    And of course Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers were Americans who made MBTI for American culture. And I note it is Americans who are evangelising foreigners with MBTI. So as Blackmail might say, MBTI is a form of American cultural imperialism. And it is a form of cultural imperialism without any understanding of the foreign cultures they are evangelising.

    Christianity, for instance, has met this same problem and they have solved it with the doctrine of Enculturation, which simply means understanding the foreign culture you are evangelising.

    But what is most disturbing is that MBTI is now using the internet to evangelise foreign school children in their bedrooms.

    And MBTI is evangelising foreign school children without understanding their cultural context.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    As I said to SimWorld I don't really see why the INTX definition is much more "perplexing" than any other X - I know it flips all the functions instead of 2, but then again, it is a bit ridiculous, if we are guided by your theory, to consider than an INTP may go from thinking that Fi is their first function, to it being their 8th one! (or not even having it).
    I mean, I'm just gonna validate you by saying the thing that I said about P and J until I'm blue in the face or it's actually addressed.

  7. #107
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    My objection is quite simple.

    It is possible to look at MBTI from a personal perspective or from a social perspective.

    Looking at it from a personal perspective makes sense because MBTI is self validating. And we all like to have our perceptions validated. And MBTI plays on this.

    However in seventy years MBTI has never been validated itself by a double blind test. And particularly in psychology a double blind test is essential to establish validity.

    And so I think it is very fair to say that MBTI has never been validated.

    And yet we have the paradox that MBTI seems to validate our perceptions of ourselves.

    So all I can conclude is that MBTI gives us an illusion of understanding.

    So then I look at the social side of MBTI and ask what social institutions use the illusion created by MBTI.

    And it turns out that the USA military has been using this illusion to control recruits since WW II. And USA business has been using this illusion to control employees for about the same length of time.

    And of course Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers were Americans who made MBTI for American culture. And I note it is Americans who are evangelising foreigners with MBTI. So as Blackmail might say, MBTI is a form of American cultural imperialism. And it is a form of cultural imperialism without any understanding of the foreign cultures they are evangelising.

    Christianity, for instance, has met this same problem and they have solved it with the doctrine of Enculturation, which simply means understanding the foreign culture you are evangelising.

    But what is most disturbing is that MBTI is now using the internet to evangelise foreign school children in their bedrooms.

    And MBTI is evangelising foreign school children without understanding their cultural context.
    I didn't read this post but I know exactly what it says.

    Think about that.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #108
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    I have no more suspicions.

    B A N N E D

  9. #109
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    i'm suspicious of lexicon

    she's one shifty character

    I resent that, bear.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    My objection is quite simple.

    It is possible to look at MBTI from a personal perspective or from a social perspective.

    Looking at it from a personal perspective makes sense because MBTI is self validating. And we all like to have our perceptions validated. And MBTI plays on this.

    However in seventy years MBTI has never been validated itself by a double blind test. And particularly in psychology a double blind test is essential to establish validity.

    And so I think it is very fair to say that MBTI has never been validated.

    And yet we have the paradox that MBTI seems to validate our perceptions of ourselves.

    So all I can conclude is that MBTI gives us an illusion of understanding.

    So then I look at the social side of MBTI and ask what social institutions use the illusion created by MBTI.

    And it turns out that the USA military has been using this illusion to control recruits since WW II. And USA business has been using this illusion to control employees for about the same length of time.

    And of course Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers were Americans who made MBTI for American culture. And I note it is Americans who are evangelising foreigners with MBTI. So as Blackmail might say, MBTI is a form of American cultural imperialism. And it is a form of cultural imperialism without any understanding of the foreign cultures they are evangelising.

    Christianity, for instance, has met this same problem and they have solved it with the doctrine of Enculturation, which simply means understanding the foreign culture you are evangelising.

    But what is most disturbing is that MBTI is now using the internet to evangelise foreign school children in their bedrooms.

    And MBTI is evangelising foreign school children without understanding their cultural context.
    I can be cruising along in a thread and then BAM! There's Victor.
    Relentless man, relentless. Lol.

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