User Tag List

First 89101112 Last

Results 91 to 100 of 186

  1. #91
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    No, she doesn't... not unless she's made a major revision of her ideas. (Which is possible, I don't know if she's released new substantial editions.)

    Personality Type, paperback, Thomson, (c) 1998 pages 79, 91, 286, and 294... The tertiary function for ITP's is an introverted perceiving function (i.e., Ni and Si).

    Maybe you got confused with her discussion of the "right-brain alternatives" which she lists right under her secondary function in the chart on page 294, which includes Fi and Se.
    Yes you're right, I did make that mistake. Apologies.

    Based on this and your continuing response, I gotta say you read as far more traditional "INTJ" to me. *shrug*
    Noted.

    Why not XXXX then? Because I'm sure sometimes you are thinking and sometimes feeling, sometimes introverted and sometimes extroverted, sometimes intuitive and sometimes sensing.... especially if you are going by a "behavioral" and not a cognitive-function model.

    How can you assign yourself an MBTI code at all if you're not using MBTI rules to determine what you are? It's just a little perplexing.
    I'm using MBTI to broadly define my behaviour. I know when I am being introverted, I know when I'm being emotional, I know when I'm being rational, know when I'm using intutiion and when I am using sensing, etc. Based on these I know I have a clear preference on 3 of those. And on J/P, less so.

    As I said to SimWorld I don't really see why the INTX definition is much more "perplexing" than any other X - I know it flips all the functions instead of 2, but then again, it is a bit ridiculous, if we are guided by your theory, to consider than an INTP may go from thinking that Fi is their first function, to it being their 8th one! (or not even having it).

    Also, I personally find the thing meaningless, if using Ti-NE, I can still act in a J way. The idea that Ti can organize its external environment while Ne sits back on a synthesized "vision", to me, just makes a mockery of the whole Ti/Te, Ni/Ne differentiations.

    To be fair other posters have noted the same thing in not as many words.

    However to clarify, I never meant to actively argue that I believe INTX is a type

    Oh well -- I did. But whatever.
    Well on your request I may start one tomorrow then. though if it's a fail I'll know who to blame.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #92
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    lol @ use of the term "heresy"

    Nobody is going to burn you at the stake here, buddy--don't get too excited.
    aww.
    This is a good starting point:
    Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki,

    but if you really want the full story you should read the actual book, Personality Type: An Owner's Manual by Lenore Thomson, or going further back, Psychological Types by C.G. Jung.

    Be careful of dismissing it before you've actually informed yourself. Since you still don't know if you're a P or J, chances are you haven't learned much about this yet.
    Thanks for the recommendations. Lenore has been on my "to read" list for some time, and still is, though each recommendation nudges her up I guess so it's all good.

    Regarding me not knowing much - I freely admit it. However I have read - and IMO understood fairly well - extensive threads by people like Jenniffer and VagrantFarce - of whom I can say with no degree of syconphancy that "they know their shit" - and I really have not been convinced. Also typing people based on behaviour is not some wacky new thing I just invented, it's fairly common and is what the tests operate on!
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #93
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    NICE
    Posts
    1,721

    Default

    Only the man that says, don't be suspicious should you be suspicious of.


  4. #94
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Also, I personally find the thing meaningless, if using Ti-NE, I can still act in a J way. The idea that Ti can organize its external environment while Ne sits back on a synthesized "vision", to me, just makes a mockery of the whole Ti/Te, Ni/Ne differentiations.
    Ti doesn't organize the external environment; INTPs prefer to use Fe for that (which most of them are pretty bad at, which would explain why INTPs are generally not so good at external organization.)

    Yes, an INTP can still act in a J way; he just tends to use the weaker tertiary and inferior functions for that, which is why he's not as good at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Also typing people based on behaviour is not some wacky new thing I just invented, it's fairly common and is what the tests operate on!
    Well, you have to use a combination of behavior and speech in order to infer the probable cognitive tendencies that make up people's worldviews. But the behavior itself is misleading because different people can behave the same way for different reasons, so you have to get to know someone and learn about his values and beliefs to really figure out his type with any accuracy.

    That's why the tests are all garbage. The best they can do is point you in the right direction for personal study, but people get wrong test results constantly. I wouldn't put much stock in those.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #95
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Well on your request I may start one tomorrow then. though if it's a fail I'll know who to blame.
    It's a blame I am willing to accept , I'm not sure exactly what you mean by a "behavioral" approach (I can guess but want to see how it specifically works) and I'd like to understand.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #96
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Ti doesn't organize the external environment; INTPs prefer to use Fe for that (which most of them are pretty bad at, which would explain why INTPs are generally not so good at external organization.)

    Yes, an INTP can still act in a J way; he just tends to use the weaker tertiary and inferior functions for that, which is why he's not as good at it.
    But, what if I'm just reasonably good at it when I have to be, but not particularly bothered when I don't. And what if my organizing skills in now way correlate to my Fe skills, whereas my level of Tx is by no means matched by external organization?

    Also I can't agree that "I wouldn't put muchs tock by the tests", as nearly everyone that gets into MBTI, gets into it because the descriptions given to them after the test, resonated. Likewise I've accurately guessed a number of peoples types before getting them to take the test. Personally I think the behaviour based test is fundamental to MBTI, otherwise it just becomes some introspective, unverifiable quasi-religion.

    Which is not to say I reject all functions theory, but you can't build a theoretical superstructure without an empirical base.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #97
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    But, what if I'm just reasonably good at it when I have to be, but not particularly bothered when I don't. And what if my organizing skills in now way correlate to my Fe skills, whereas my level of Tx is by no means matched by external organization?
    Then you're probably a Te user.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Also I can't agree that "I wouldn't put muchs tock by the tests", as nearly everyone that gets into MBTI, gets into it because the descriptions given to them after the test, resonated. Likewise I've accurately guessed a number of peoples types before getting them to take the test. Personally I think the behaviour based test is fundamental to MBTI, otherwise it just becomes some introspective, unverifiable quasi-religion.
    Your emphasis on empirical testing is representative of a Te mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Which is not to say I reject all functions theory, but you can't build a theoretical superstructure without an empirical base.
    Again, major Te. You're likely an INTJ.

    Ti users don't typically care whether there's an empirical test as long as the system seems internally consistent with its own premises. Typology is merely an arbitrary categorization system--we take the entire of set of human behavior and divide it into sixteen made up categories. It is a philosophy, not a science.

    We can't know for sure who belongs to which category--just think of the types as genres of people. There's no empirical test to determine genre labels for music or film, but having those labeled categories makes it easier to compare, contrast and group individuals (even though we cannot empirically test which group any particular individual belongs to.)

    So as I've said any number of times--I can't prove to you that I'm ENTP any more than I can prove that Led Zeppelin was a rock band; asking for empirical evidence is missing the point.

    If you need an empirical test to consider any of this meaningful, you're probably an INTJ.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #98
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    I thank your feedback. Though I should note - not because of the question of whether I am a P or a J but for the sake of clarity - that I'm not asking for "empirical proof that you're an ENTP". I am just saying a theory needs an empirical base, not that a theory can be reduced to empirical evidence. In fact I'm against empiricism as a philosophy.

    Which is another question: I know many XNTP's who are marxists for example, who IRL would reject your notion of philosophy and your attitude to empirical evidence, and who share my attitude of a "dialectical relationship between the base and the superstructure".

    I mean, I really think the issue of what philosphical outlook we have on life, can't be reduced to MBTI.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  9. #99
    *hmmms* theadoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    esfp
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Posters who have avatars of ugly fat chicks.
    You're definitely not the only one. I find it pretty disturbing
    Oh yeah?

  10. #100
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I thank your feedback. Though I should note - not because of the question of whether I am a P or a J but for the sake of clarity - that I'm not asking for "empirical proof that you're an ENTP". I am just saying a theory needs an empirical base, not that a theory can be reduced to empirical evidence. In fact I'm against empiricism as a philosophy.
    The empirical base is purely experiential. Look at people around you and try to figure out what values motivate them to see the world and behave the way they do. Neuroscience isn't advanced enough yet to explain this scientifically, so for now we're using a philosophical system to categorize it arbitrarily.

    So the empirical base is just interacting with people, observing what they think is important and asking about their values. You don't need any kind of standardized type test for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Which is another question: I know many XNTP's who are marxists for example, who IRL would reject your notion of philosophy and your attitude to empirical evidence, and who share my attitude of a "dialectical relationship between the base and the superstructure".
    Well first of all, if you don't really understand typology that well yet, then you can't be very sure they're NTPs.

    But aside from that, I can't really comment further on this without specific information from specific people, without having a chance to interact with them. You can make claims like, "I know INTPs who aren't dominant in Ti!", but if that's the case then they aren't INTPs in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I mean, I really think the issue of what philosphical outlook we have on life, can't be reduced to MBTI.
    That's because MBTI is an inferior system that not many people on this site really pay that much attention to. We've borrowed its type labels and that's about all. Most of the analysis that happens here is from a neo-Jungian perspective.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

Similar Threads

  1. How popular do you think you are at Typology Central?
    By JivinJeffJones in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 780
    Last Post: 10-20-2016, 04:29 PM
  2. Do you think it is possible that NTs (esp. NTPs) are not good at academic writing?
    By Halfjillhalfjack in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 01-20-2010, 06:28 PM
  3. What are you most chauvinistic about?
    By yenom in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06-28-2009, 04:30 AM
  4. What are you guys feeling about the state of affairs now?
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 03-31-2009, 02:13 PM
  5. [NT] What are you most concerned about?
    By Lucifer in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 10-03-2008, 05:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO