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  1. #51
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    I insulted a person directly therefore I could understand both infractions.
    Define insult.

    Let's invoke some Ti here to clarify things so everyone is on the same page.
    Now, why won't that work in this case? Oh, that's easy.
    What is an insult to some, is not an insult to another.
    And all the Ti "clarification" in the world, will never change that.

    There's something wrong when a mod calls posting a photo of a female vampire "trolling,"
    while a different mod is laughing their ass off about the photo.

    The lack of consistency there, is bothersome.

    There's something wrong when a mod renders a decision based upon what he/she thinks you INTENDED.

    You can't prove what someone intended.

    Without any real evidence, there is no case.

    By the way, imagine this scene:

    Mother: Bob you are grounded for a month!
    Bob: Why?

    Mother: You did A,B,C,D,E, F in the past, and now G.
    Bob: Couldn't you have told me I was doing something wrong back when I did A,B,C,D,E, and F? I know about G, only because you just told me.

    I have a hunch a smart person will figure out what is unfair.

  2. #52
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Thread fail.

    Almost without exception, people who think they are overmoderated and their defenders misinterpret moderation based on content for moderation based on opinion.

    Let's make up an example. Overmoderated Freedom Fighter says:

    "NTs are unfeeling bastards and they can go fuck themselves."

    Overmoderated Freedom Fighter gets dinged by a mod and says, "The mod dinged me because I don't like NTs! Attica! Attica!" When in fact, if Overmoderated Freedom Fighter would have said:

    "NTs are often insensitive to the feelings of others and I find that I tend to avoid them because this is frustrating to me"

    ...then no one would have said a word. People aren't infracting you for what you think. They're infracting you for being belligerent.
    You might have a stronger case if you'd used an actual example, instead of a totally made-up one. And since much moderation isn't made public, you really aren't qualified to assess what is happening "almost without exception".
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I agree. I don't think people get moderated for content as much as they do for tone, style, and method.
    Only content can be judged impartially, therefore only content matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #53
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    ...Go on.

    (i.e., explain in more detail what sort of practical workable system you would implement and how it would be enforced under the typical restraints of the typical online forum, overseen by a variety of mods without assigned schedules or areas of responsibility.)

    I tend to approach things in terms of "minimizing inconsistency."

    Not referring to your example above nor necessarily in agreement or disagreement to your post, I think any system will have inconsistency to some degree, and reality places restraints on what that minimal amount of inconsistency will entail.

    Anyway, I'm curious what you would do... although in the end I think it would simply be a product of your own personality and style, which isn't much different than it would be for anyone else... except for the fact you wouldn't be trying to coordinate with other people who might be different than you and create some sort of cohesive whole.

    PS. Yes, I get that you and Morgan both believe posts should be edited on content (whatever exactly that means... I think you have an ideal sense of it but not a practical one, just like Americans like to tout "Freedom!" in an idealistic and passionate sense without really bothering to figure out how freedoms need to be negotiated in a complex system with dissenting voices and a tendency toward chaos), and otherwise I'm not touching that one at the moment.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #54
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Mother: You did A,B,C,D,E, F in the past, and now G.
    Bob: Couldn't you have told me I was doing something wrong back when I did A,B,C,D,E, and F? I know about G, only because you just told me.
    A forum union! Actually that's only half-facetious, as generally speaking when you are disciplining union members, you have to prove a clear path of escalation before punitive action. As you have pointed out Jaguar, it's unfair to be cumulatively disciplined if you were never warned re previous actions.

    Don't know what a solution could be, unless you want to form a group of forum members to oversee what you feel is fair or unfair behaviour by the moderation staff. Then, you would have to engage in dialogue WITH the moderators for each case and come to a decision based on very clear forum rules and standards.

    My personal thoughts: this is why I don't run forums! I think it's unnecessary overkill, but I'm just throwing this out there as it crosses my mind.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #55
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    It seems to me the Fi's were kinda enjoying Sim's 'trolling' thread.

    It also seems to me there is over-moderation here as a general rule, but I hate being redundant.

    It also seems to me that people tend to micromanage when they feel they lack adequate control of things in their own lives.

    Take that as you will.

    I think it'd be fun to have a 24-hour period of NO MOD ACTIVITY. Hey, Dr H, do you think we can try that? I think it'd be a blast, seriously.

    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #56
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I think it'd be fun to have a 24-hour period of NO MOD ACTIVITY. Hey, Dr H, do you think we can try that? I think it'd be a blast, seriously.
    lol, Jag -- what have you been telling the natives lately?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #57
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I mean it's like we are treated like we're in adult daycare here. Doesn't it? Gee whiz golly, don't kids need to learn how to stand up for themselves? Of course, a mod would be needed occasionally FOR JAG , but how many active mods are there here? 8?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #58
    Permabanned
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I mean it's like we are treated like we're in adult daycare here. Doesn't it? Gee whiz golly, don't kids need to learn how to defend themselves? Of course, a mod would be needed occasionally, but how many active mods are there here? 8?
    Of course we are in adult daycare. The people who are regularly on this site are clearly all suffering from various mental and emotional problems.

  9. #59
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Jennifer and Ms. Mix seem to be, compared to the other mods, the least moderate in their moderating styles.
    Even if it were true that those 2 mods moderate more threads than the rest (who knows), I am confused as to the relevance.

    In any group of people that can be ranked by a trait "X", you will by definition have some people that fall on either end of the normal distribution of "X". Does this mean that their expression of X is automatically "too severe"? absolutely not. It can be, of course, but simply being at the upper or lower edges of the spectrum should not be assumed to be a negative...the average isn't automatically the best option.

    Everyone will have different opinions as to what should and shouldnt be moderated. Thats why we have moderators in the first place.

    I have no issue with any of the mods and in general I think their judgement has been reasonable and often overgenerous. (I admit I was shocked by the recent inflammatory posts by one of the mods but as he later apologized I suppose it is not an issue)
    -end of thread-

  10. #60
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    lol, Jag -- what have you been telling the natives lately?
    All part of his master plan. Sow the seeds of dissent, have the system collapse, so he and Blue can become King and Queen of TypeC. Simulated will be their court jester.

    I've already said too much.



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