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Thread: Random Thought Thread

  1. #58721
    Senior Member Array Lark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    The clueless of those who believe than can remake the world is always startling, though it should not be.

    A great example is Vietnam. From 1945 through 1960, it was the #1 recipient of US foreign aid in the world (more than rebuilding Japan or any single country in Europe, which is saying something). Even though it was a French colony until 1954, the US engaged in a massive program to try and make it into a model state, using tools and programs inspired by the New Deal. The French would have never returned to Vietnam without US pushing them. Ho Chi Minh worked hard with the CIA predecessor OSS, and tried to become a US ally after the war.

    But those silly geniuses screwed everything up, ignoring Vietnamese culture and history (hey, they are just like the Chinese, right? they thought). The Pentagon Papers showed that the entire thing was unnecessary, ineffective, counterproductive, and wasteful. The only possible reason the researchers saw to stay was "American credibility". But first JFK, then LBJ doubled down on war and massively increased involvement. For absolutely nothing.... oh, such geniuses....
    Well when you consider that the Vietnamese government were funding programmes putting Papal flags on buildings and alienating the native buddhists you begin to get a distinct impression that cultural insensitivity counts, that monk immolation pic which everyone knows from the conflict was actually a monk demonstrating against the RC French, so, fun fact, anyway, the lessons definitely were not learned if the African campaign to spread homosexuality, or its acceptance, depending on the script you read is anything at all to go by.

    Its ridiculous, I have to ask who it was meant to impress or where the global gay elites are, I heard recently that just under half of the politicians in the UK parliament identify as homosexual now, which makes me wonder at how representative that is of the public, but anyway, different topic I guess, but I cant see the US wanting to impress the UK.

    I'd suspect that US liberals would see clear to knowing that this has been a misadventure and mis-spend whatever they actually feel about a culture war in favour of particular social and cultural attitudes beyond their borders.

  2. #58722
    breaking out of my cocoon Array SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well when you consider that the Vietnamese government were funding programmes putting Papal flags on buildings and alienating the native buddhists you begin to get a distinct impression that cultural insensitivity counts, that monk immolation pic which everyone knows from the conflict was actually a monk demonstrating against the RC French, so, fun fact, anyway, the lessons definitely were not learned if the African campaign to spread homosexuality, or its acceptance, depending on the script you read is anything at all to go by.
    Yes to everything you said. This is one thing I never get about those who promote extreme multiculturalism or even a move to a global monoculture: do they have such little understanding of the world to see that unique cultures are just that, unique, and running roughshod over people isn't going to result in a positive outcome? I suspect they are so wrapped up in their limited understanding and ignore evidence to the contrary.

    I'd suspect that US liberals would see clear to knowing that this has been a misadventure and mis-spend whatever they actually feel about a culture war in favour of particular social and cultural attitudes beyond their borders.
    Unfortunately, they would need to admit error. Such is antithetical to the current liberal agenda, which is closed minded and self-righteous, sure of its wisdom and willfully blind of its failures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
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    And I am not a hedgehog......

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    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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  3. #58723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its ridiculous, I have to ask who it was meant to impress or where the global gay elites are, I heard recently that just under half of the politicians in the UK parliament identify as homosexual now, which makes me wonder at how representative that is of the public, but anyway, different topic I guess, but I cant see the US wanting to impress the UK.
    That is very far from true. 32 members of the current House of Commons identify as LGBT, that is just under 5%. You either greatly misunderstood or misremembered your source or your source is highly unreliable. Maybe they said "four point nine percent" and you heard "fortynine percent" and believed it?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  4. #58724
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Yes to everything you said. This is one thing I never get about those who promote extreme multiculturalism or even a move to a global monoculture: do they have such little understanding of the world to see that unique cultures are just that, unique, and running roughshod over people isn't going to result in a positive outcome? I suspect they are so wrapped up in their limited understanding and ignore evidence to the contrary.
    I think you're closer the mark with the criticism of a global mono-culture than you are criticising multi-culturalism, which is objectively the case, whatever anyone considers to the contrary, even were there exists a consensus, such as within a single community or church or political party there are objectively hundreds of shades of opinion as it is impossible, short of the undesirable hive mind idea, for two individuals to think exactly alike. At least without sacrificing complexity for a cruel over simplification.

    I kind of am used to this kind of thing being an RC and a one time socialist too, I've seen history repeat itself and the more I read on the matter the more I'm convinced of it, each time the well intended export of ideas or ways takes place those responsible are more convinced they are not simply repeating the errors of the past.

    Unfortunately, they would need to admit error. Such is antithetical to the current liberal agenda, which is closed minded and self-righteous, sure of its wisdom and willfully blind of its failures.
    I have to admit that is probably correct, on the other hand I dont feel that sort of denouncement is likely to make anyone less closed minded or less righteous, its likely to make them more and not less defensive and shot off from any sort of second thoughts on the matter. You can be sure I spend my fair share of the time thinking about how much that side of the argument is in error and I get pissed about it too but that by itself isnt going to achieve anything other than entrenchment and retrenchment of their opinions.

  5. #58725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    That is very far from true. 32 members of the current House of Commons identify as LGBT, that is just under 5%. You either greatly misunderstood or misremembered your source or your source is highly unreliable. Maybe they said "four point nine percent" and you heard "fortynine percent" and believed it?
    I'm not sure which chamber it was but I heard it was 42% there's a chance that it was inaccurate because I thought it was amazing or absurd to be honest, then again the numbers being what you've just suggested would point up a democratic deficit of another kind but then there you go.

  6. #58726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think you're closer the mark with the criticism of a global mono-culture than you are criticising multi-culturalism, which is objectively the case, whatever anyone considers to the contrary, even were there exists a consensus, such as within a single community or church or political party there are objectively hundreds of shades of opinion as it is impossible, short of the undesirable hive mind idea, for two individuals to think exactly alike. At least without sacrificing complexity for a cruel over simplification.
    Multiculturalism ends up in a new monoculture, just one without depth, with less civic engagement, less empathy, less uniqueness. I find the whole thing condescending...

    I kind of am used to this kind of thing being an RC and a one time socialist too, I've seen history repeat itself and the more I read on the matter the more I'm convinced of it, each time the well intended export of ideas or ways takes place those responsible are more convinced they are not simply repeating the errors of the past.
    Yes. Odd how they never learn.

    I have to admit that is probably correct, on the other hand I dont feel that sort of denouncement is likely to make anyone less closed minded or less righteous, its likely to make them more and not less defensive and shot off from any sort of second thoughts on the matter. You can be sure I spend my fair share of the time thinking about how much that side of the argument is in error and I get pissed about it too but that by itself isnt going to achieve anything other than entrenchment and retrenchment of their opinions.
    Helping people see is often near impossible. If you tiproe around, they just evade the truth. If you hit them with a blunt object, it will occasionally work but often result in defensiveness.

    People only learn when they open their minds to new ideas and few can do that, so locked they are into their mindset.

    I am equal opportunity critic.

    Try tell a patriotic conservative American that US policies caused massive hardship around the world and those good things they thought we did were usually bad.... or that the US in largely responsible for the Cold War, as Truman thought the US needed an enemy to keep the public engaged so as to avoid another Great Depression. Oh, I am writing something on that right now... hmm, I will likely be called a Communist for it, I suppose, lol.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

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  8. #58728
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    If all my close friends happen to be good-looking, does that make me a shallow human being?

  9. #58729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protege View Post
    If all my close friends happen to be good-looking, does that make me a shallow human being?
    Yes. You are a shallow person. Be gone!

  10. #58730
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    there are probably not many things I'd like more than traditions with sentimental value
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