- The graphic is based on a principle of rightness. That is to say, the person(s) who created it had an idea that what they were suggesting was for the greater good of us all, given all knowledge and understanding available. (This is rather ambiguous, but we must assume this for Nicodemus’ claim to be true. It is certainly possible that the graphic grasps the point of worrying about racism and sexism, but wants all the niggers and bitches to die in a ditch. I think most would concede that, for all intents and purposes, the graphic was created with good intentions, and indeed wants African Americans, women, men, Caucasians, etcetera, to live happy lives.)
- The graphic is suggesting that we should stop worrying about whether something is racist or sexist and start worrying about whether or not it is unkind, regardless of motivation.
- The graphic could have easily suggested that we start worrying about whether an action is unkind without suggesting that we stop worrying about whether it is racist or sexist.
- By A-1, A-2 and A-3 we must conclude that the following is true about the beliefs implicit in the graphic: It wants to facilitate the creation of a better world, and by not worrying about racism/sexism AND worrying about whether something is unkind, we create a better world than we would by:
- Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist AND not worrying about whether something is unkind.
- Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist AND worrying about whether something is unkind.
(*Note – I think by #4 above it is pretty clear that the point of the graphic is simply that “we should stop worrying about racism and sexism," but my/this opinion isn’t important to this discussion/argument.)
From these we can explicitly state what I believe is Nicodemus’ argument:
- Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist creates a better world than not doing so, regardless of whether or not we worry about whether something is generally unkind.
- We take “missing the point” henceforth to be inclusive of “not understanding the net goodness of a thing.”
- If one misses the point about worrying about whether something is racist/sexist, it/she/he also misses the point about worrying about racism or sexism. (Yes, I went there) /INTP
- By A-4 and B-1 thru B-3, we must conclude that the graphic misses the point of worrying about racism and sexism.
Now, as I stated in A-1, you can walk away from this discussion by saying “well you can’t know the true intentions of the graphic, so you are assuming something for which you have no evidence.” Certainly we can never know for sure what the intention of any action is, even if we're told first hand by the actor. If this is the road you want to take, then you’re welcome to it. I think that while it is technically correct, it is not in the spirit of the discussion. Further, the same strategy could be used to negate almost any argument that doesn’t spell out every single implicit assumption that, by rhetorical convention, isn’t necessary. Moving on…
The crux of the issue is whether or not B-1 is true (and to a much lesser extent, whether or not B-3 is true). I think, given my knowledge of your ideologies (@Zarathustra @Nicodemus), this is the fundamental issue at play here; the motivating disparity, if you will. I’m not going to delve too deeply into details, since they aren’t necessary for the purposes of this post. However, I will say this: I do not believe Zarathustra’s claim about Nicodemus is the same as Nicodemus’ claim about the graphic for the following reasons:
- Conditional on B-1 being true (the major disputable issue here) it does appear that the graphic misses the point of worrying about racism and sexism. Thus, Nicodemus’ claim is based on an assumption, but not an assumption about the graphic or the point of the graphic. Rather, it is based on his own understanding of the goodness of worrying about racism/sexism.
- Implicit in your (@Zarathustra) statement, “by the same measure, [Nicodemus] failed to grasp the point it was making,” is the claim that Nicodemus could not have made his statement about the graphic if he did indeed “grasp the point” of it. However, as shown above, he certainly can. What you could have said to Nicodemus is: “By the same measure, you failed to grasp the point of worrying about racism and sexism too.”
Thread: Random Thought Thread
08-06-2013, 09:53 PM #35871
Last edited by Jonny; 08-07-2013 at 10:07 AM.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
08-06-2013, 10:11 PM #35872GlycerineGuest
probably was for shock value... but still awkwardly funny.
08-06-2013, 10:22 PM #35873
My need to write or fuck or code comes from the fact that I am an instance of Hairless Fetal Ape, driven by highly evolved genetic machinery and its interactions with the physical environment. That is the beginning of attachment and to be free from it is to become detached from bodily existence like MJ or Left Eye or Kurt Cobain. This doesn't mean Buddhists commit spiritual suicide as that presupposes an attachment to release and probably means bad karma for the next life. These monks are just supposed to float asymptotically closer to enlightenment . . . perhaps starving to death. Such unbounded processes are too slow for me. Gollum sure as hell wasn't going to wait for the Hobbits to introspect their way out of the Ring's influence. He is going to go apeshit on that ring finger."My comrades and my beloved, upon your way you shall meet men with hoofs; give them your wings. And men with horns; give them wreaths of laurel. And men with claws; give them petals for fingers. And men with forked tongues; give them honey words." --Kahlil Gibran, The Garden of The Prophet
08-06-2013, 11:17 PM #35874Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.
08-07-2013, 04:28 AM #35875
You don't understand what it means to have a backbone, clearly. "Running game" != "having a backbone". Quite the opposite, in fact...
You've asked for a reply, so here it is.
Your response to me in your "help me meet women" thread is pathetic and hateful. You are too much of a coward to take on someone like Bamboo, because you perceive that he is stronger than you (he is). So you attack me, for simply agreeing with him, in the process trying to deflect attention from your own inadequacy and exposure, onto me, as goto 'villain of the piece'. This is a trite, pathetic move which fails to impress all but the feeble-minded. And I'm guessing, doesn't even make you feel particularly good about yourself.
Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. If I am, as you say, a misogynist, and you condemn misogyny, then you should have both voted "no" and called out any misogynistic behaviour that you perceived on my part. Hoist on my own petard - a fitting end, no? Or maybe you're not smart enough to figure that out. Or maybe you're not simply delusional but a purposeful liar. Who knows? Frankly, who cares. The fact that you refuse to condemn misogyny, that you call women "sheep", that you are paralysed by fear of your ex and afraid of approaching women in general, suggests that this is an issue for you, not me. Hatred of women is rooted in fear of women. However superficially comforting you might find it to project your problems onto others, it's not going to do you a bit of good. It certainly won't help you find the relationship you so desperately crave. Transparently, you prove yourself a coward, and like many snivelling cowards, aspire to be a bully.
You need to work on your self-esteem, then perhaps you won't attract abusive partners, and feel the need to take out your spite on every woman you encounter.
08-07-2013, 04:38 AM #35876
08-07-2013, 06:15 AM #35877
08-07-2013, 06:17 AM #35878SocietyGuest
as far as the common sense application, if you are only with adults than in most cases nobody is going to worry about it or complain. if there are children running around, stop staring at their mom's ass and cover up.
08-07-2013, 06:48 AM #35879
Terrible things happen to good people every day.
Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
I am one of the terrible things..
08-07-2013, 06:50 AM #35880