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Thread: Random Thought Thread

  1. #35871
    null Array Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    You presumed that because it did not put an emphasis on worrying about racism and sexism that it fails to grasp the point of worrying about racism and sexism, and perhaps even what the concepts mean; absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence; just because it didn't make mention of the point of worrying about racism and sexism, doesn't mean it fails to grasp the point of worrying about racism and sexism; it had a point it was making, and a legitimate one, and that is what it chose to focus on; often times one does that simply for efficacy's sake; I will admit I was likewise a bit struck by the same quality you have pointed to, but have not made the error of assuming that absence of evidence is necessarily evidence of absence. Considering, in your post, there is an absence of evidence that you grasp the point the piece was making, by the same measure you have used to judge it -- that an absence of evidence is evidence of absence -- you could be said to fail to understand it. Not that I necessarily believe that's the case, at least not in full, but if that's the measure by which you're going to judge it, then you should be wary of how that same measure can be applied when it comes to judging you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    That's not what I did, so your claim is still wrong. And since this seems to be your entire argument, there is no way you can ever make it right.

    I'll watch the next episode of 'Six Feet Under' now.

    The graphic didn’t simply “not put an emphasis on worrying about racism and sexism,” it suggested that “maybe it’s time we stop worrying about whether something is racist or sexist…” It therefore isn’t simply a matter of lack of evidence. Consider the following:

    A)
    1. The graphic is based on a principle of rightness. That is to say, the person(s) who created it had an idea that what they were suggesting was for the greater good of us all, given all knowledge and understanding available. (This is rather ambiguous, but we must assume this for Nicodemus’ claim to be true. It is certainly possible that the graphic grasps the point of worrying about racism and sexism, but wants all the niggers and bitches to die in a ditch. I think most would concede that, for all intents and purposes, the graphic was created with good intentions, and indeed wants African Americans, women, men, Caucasians, etcetera, to live happy lives.)

    2. The graphic is suggesting that we should stop worrying about whether something is racist or sexist and start worrying about whether or not it is unkind, regardless of motivation.

    3. The graphic could have easily suggested that we start worrying about whether an action is unkind without suggesting that we stop worrying about whether it is racist or sexist.

    4. By A-1, A-2 and A-3 we must conclude that the following is true about the beliefs implicit in the graphic: It wants to facilitate the creation of a better world, and by not worrying about racism/sexism AND worrying about whether something is unkind, we create a better world than we would by:

      • Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist AND not worrying about whether something is unkind.

      • Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist AND worrying about whether something is unkind.


    (*Note – I think by #4 above it is pretty clear that the point of the graphic is simply that “we should stop worrying about racism and sexism," but my/this opinion isn’t important to this discussion/argument.)

    From these we can explicitly state what I believe is Nicodemus’ argument:

    B)
    1. Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist creates a better world than not doing so, regardless of whether or not we worry about whether something is generally unkind.

    2. We take “missing the point” henceforth to be inclusive of “not understanding the net goodness of a thing.”

    3. If one misses the point about worrying about whether something is racist/sexist, it/she/he also misses the point about worrying about racism or sexism. (Yes, I went there) /INTP

    4. By A-4 and B-1 thru B-3, we must conclude that the graphic misses the point of worrying about racism and sexism.



    Now, as I stated in A-1, you can walk away from this discussion by saying “well you can’t know the true intentions of the graphic, so you are assuming something for which you have no evidence.” Certainly we can never know for sure what the intention of any action is, even if we're told first hand by the actor. If this is the road you want to take, then you’re welcome to it. I think that while it is technically correct, it is not in the spirit of the discussion. Further, the same strategy could be used to negate almost any argument that doesn’t spell out every single implicit assumption that, by rhetorical convention, isn’t necessary. Moving on…

    The crux of the issue is whether or not B-1 is true (and to a much lesser extent, whether or not B-3 is true). I think, given my knowledge of your ideologies (@Zarathustra @Nicodemus), this is the fundamental issue at play here; the motivating disparity, if you will. I’m not going to delve too deeply into details, since they aren’t necessary for the purposes of this post. However, I will say this: I do not believe Zarathustra’s claim about Nicodemus is the same as Nicodemus’ claim about the graphic for the following reasons:

    1. Conditional on B-1 being true (the major disputable issue here) it does appear that the graphic misses the point of worrying about racism and sexism. Thus, Nicodemus’ claim is based on an assumption, but not an assumption about the graphic or the point of the graphic. Rather, it is based on his own understanding of the goodness of worrying about racism/sexism.

    2. Implicit in your (@Zarathustra) statement, “by the same measure, [Nicodemus] failed to grasp the point it was making,” is the claim that Nicodemus could not have made his statement about the graphic if he did indeed “grasp the point” of it. However, as shown above, he certainly can. What you could have said to Nicodemus is: “By the same measure, you failed to grasp the point of worrying about racism and sexism too.”


    Regards,
    JB
    Last edited by Jonny; 08-07-2013 at 10:07 AM.

  2. #35872
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    probably was for shock value... but still awkwardly funny.

  3. #35873
    Senior Member Array Pinker85's Avatar
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    My need to write or fuck or code comes from the fact that I am an instance of Hairless Fetal Ape, driven by highly evolved genetic machinery and its interactions with the physical environment. That is the beginning of attachment and to be free from it is to become detached from bodily existence like MJ or Left Eye or Kurt Cobain. This doesn't mean Buddhists commit spiritual suicide as that presupposes an attachment to release and probably means bad karma for the next life. These monks are just supposed to float asymptotically closer to enlightenment . . . perhaps starving to death. Such unbounded processes are too slow for me. Gollum sure as hell wasn't going to wait for the Hobbits to introspect their way out of the Ring's influence. He is going to go apeshit on that ring finger.
    "My comrades and my beloved, upon your way you shall meet men with hoofs; give them your wings. And men with horns; give them wreaths of laurel. And men with claws; give them petals for fingers. And men with forked tongues; give them honey words." --Kahlil Gibran, The Garden of The Prophet

  4. #35874
    waiting for Winterman Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    My need to write or fuck or code comes from the fact that I am an instance of Hairless Fetal Ape, driven by highly evolved genetic machinery and its interactions with the physical environment. That is the beginning of attachment and to be free from it is to become detached from bodily existence like MJ or Left Eye or Kurt Cobain.
    Unattachment is overrated. Although perhaps the unattachment the Buddhists speak of is in fact and attachment to everything. That must be what they mean. I know what unattachment feels like, and there is nothing noble about it, so their unattachment must be something different.
    Winterman is coming through the forest down to his Chrimbus cave inside the woods. Now's the time to tell him everything you want inside your Chrimbus bush!

  5. #35875
    meh Array Salomé's Avatar
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    You don't understand what it means to have a backbone, clearly. "Running game" != "having a backbone". Quite the opposite, in fact...

    You've asked for a reply, so here it is.

    Your response to me in your "help me meet women" thread is pathetic and hateful. You are too much of a coward to take on someone like Bamboo, because you perceive that he is stronger than you (he is). So you attack me, for simply agreeing with him, in the process trying to deflect attention from your own inadequacy and exposure, onto me, as goto 'villain of the piece'. This is a trite, pathetic move which fails to impress all but the feeble-minded. And I'm guessing, doesn't even make you feel particularly good about yourself.

    Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. If I am, as you say, a misogynist, and you condemn misogyny, then you should have both voted "no" and called out any misogynistic behaviour that you perceived on my part. Hoist on my own petard - a fitting end, no? Or maybe you're not smart enough to figure that out. Or maybe you're not simply delusional but a purposeful liar. Who knows? Frankly, who cares. The fact that you refuse to condemn misogyny, that you call women "sheep", that you are paralysed by fear of your ex and afraid of approaching women in general, suggests that this is an issue for you, not me. Hatred of women is rooted in fear of women. However superficially comforting you might find it to project your problems onto others, it's not going to do you a bit of good. It certainly won't help you find the relationship you so desperately crave. Transparently, you prove yourself a coward, and like many snivelling cowards, aspire to be a bully.
    You need to work on your self-esteem, then perhaps you won't attract abusive partners, and feel the need to take out your spite on every woman you encounter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #35876
    meh Array Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    The graphic didn’t simply “not put an emphasis on worrying about racism and sexism,” it suggested that “maybe it’s time we stop worrying about whether something is racist or sexist…” It therefore isn’t simply a matter of lack of evidence. Consider the following:

    A)
    1. The graphic is based on a principle of rightness. That is to say, the person(s) who created it had an idea that what they were suggesting was for the greater good of us all, given all knowledge and understanding available. (This is rather ambiguous, but we must assume this for Nicodemus’ claim to be true. It is certainly possible that the graphic grasps the point of worrying about racism and sexism, but wants all the niggers and bitches to die in a ditch. I think most would concede that, for all intents and purposes, the graphic was created with good intentions, and indeed wants African Americans, women, men, Caucasians, etcetera, to live happy lives.)

    2. The graphic is suggesting that we should stop worrying about whether something is racist or sexist and start worrying about whether or not it is unkind, regardless of motivation.

    3. The graphic could have easily suggested that we start worrying about whether an action is unkind without suggesting that we stop worrying about whether it is racist or sexist.

    4. By A-1, A-2 and A-3 we must conclude that the following is true about the beliefs implicit in the graphic: It wants to facilitate the creation a better world, and by not worrying about racism/sexism AND worrying about whether something is unkind, we create a better world than we would by:

      • Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist AND not worrying about whether something is unkind.

      • Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist AND worrying about whether something is unkind.


    (*Note – I think by #4 above it is pretty clear that the point of the graphic is simply that “we should stop worrying about racism and sexism," but my/this opinion isn’t important to this discussion/argument.)

    From these we can explicitly state what I believe is Nicodemus’ argument:

    B)
    1. Worrying about whether something is racist/sexist creates a better world than not doing so, regardless of whether or not we worry about whether something is generally unkind.

    2. We take “missing the point” henceforth to be inclusive of “not understanding the net goodness of a thing.”

    3. If one misses the point about worrying about whether something is racist/sexist, it/she/he also misses the point about worrying about racism or sexism. (Yes, I went there) /INTP

    4. By A-4 and B-1 thru B-3, we must conclude that the graphic misses the point of worrying about racism and sexism.



    Now, as I stated in A-1, you can walk away from this discussion by saying “well you can’t know the true intentions of the graphic, so you are assuming something for which you have no evidence.” Certainly we can never know for sure what the intention of any action is, even if we're told first hand by the actor. If this is the road you want to take, then you’re welcome to it. I think that while it is technically correct, it is not in the spirit of the discussion. Further, the same strategy could be used to negate almost any argument that doesn’t spell out every single implicit assumption that, by rhetorical convention, isn’t necessary. Moving on…

    The crux of the issue is whether or not B-1 is true (and to a much lesser extent, whether or not B-3 is true). I think, given my knowledge of your ideologies (@Zarathustra @Nicodemus), this is the fundamental issue at play here; the motivating disparity, if you will. I’m not going too delve to deeply into details, since they aren’t necessary for the purposes of this post. However, I will say this: I do not believe Zarathustra’s claim about Nicodemus is the same as Nicodemus’ claim about the graphic for the following reasons:

    1. Conditional on B-1 being true (the major disputable issue here) it does appear that the graphic misses the point of worrying about racism and sexism. Thus, Nicodemus’ claim is based on an assumption, but not an assumption about the graphic or the point of the graphic. Rather, it is based on his own understanding of the goodness of worrying about racism/sexism.

    2. Implicit in your (@Zarathustra) statement, “by the same measure, [Nicodemus] failed to grasp the point it was making,” is the claim that Nicodemus could not have made his statement about the graphic if he did indeed “grasp the point” of it. However, as shown above, he certainly can. What you could have said to Nicodemus is: “By the same measure, you failed to grasp the point of worrying about racism and sexism too.”


    Regards,
    JB
    This is why people hate INTPs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #35877

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    This is why people hate INTPs.
    In INTPs, the emissary has won.

  8. #35878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmata View Post
    What's the social etiquette on boners if you live in a nudist colony?
    in naturist resorts/beaches the answer is covering it up with towel - sometimes this is social etiquette, sometimes this is actually part of the resort rules.

    as far as the common sense application, if you are only with adults than in most cases nobody is going to worry about it or complain. if there are children running around, stop staring at their mom's ass and cover up.

  9. #35879
    Warflower Array Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You don't have to be old and decrepit. I once (accidentally) dated an athlete who had "jogger's bladder". He had to visit the bathroom every 30 mins. You can imagine how much fun that was.
    it feels like i'm there every twenty. I'm sure im being melodramatic about it, but GOD, bladder, STORE MORE PEE DAMMIT.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  10. #35880
    Warflower Array Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The Washington Post was sold for 250 mill today to the CEO of Amazon.

    To put that in context The Wall Street Journal sold for $5 Billion (or 20 times as much) in 2007.

    Between this and Newsweek and the general tumult we're seeing in the news industry, I'd say we're right in the middle of a huge shift in the US Media landscape.
    There is a major shift in the media landscape pretty much everywhere. It's a sucky time to be a journalist.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


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