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  1. #31581


    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Oh wow, thank you for the correction. Seems I drastically underestimated the amount of militia preparation that was going on, and how alarmed people were at the idea that there might be too few weapons at their disposal. Good stuff.
    The LDV organised not simply the gathering together of available weapons but they also sought to disseminate information on manufacturing expedient and improvised weapons, including sticky bombs and molotovs, also home shopped semi-automatic weapons like sten guns (Orwell writes about firing one of these) and pistols which would be called zip guns now.

    After the war lots of left wingers attempted to harbour or hide weapons in dumps which had been made available by the government because they believed that it would be necessary to ensure that any future election of a labour party with a popular left wing agenda "safe", either from establishment "strikes", betrayals under pressure from capital flight, the military or communist infiltrators.

    Winteringham, or winterington, I cant remember which is the right spelling, was a member of a break away party called commonwealth, which was itself a break away from the independent labour party, a left wing fringe group which Orwell was assisted by in passage into and escape from Spain, they resisted war with Germany for a long time on the basis that it would involve raining bombs on German socialists organising a fight back against Hitler from with Germany.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  2. #31582


    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Mmhmm, mmhmm. *listens*
    Aye, I figure it's all lies and jests until a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  3. #31583


    Mia: I appreciate your eloquent post, you're clearly an intelligent guy who I actually enjoy reading (not many people on TypoC I enjoy reading).

    In this case though, that eloquence just serves to cover up complete underlying confusion.

    In addition to what @Lark said (which I did not know, and I thank him for the historical information):

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    During WWII France fell like a pair of panties on prom night, and England was next on the agenda and was suffering major attacks, including bombers bombing your major cities with London taking the brunt of the attacks. Its citizens were scared shitless. People were dying by the thousands. Four million homes were destroyed.

    Hitler issued a directive reading “As England, in spite of the hopelessness of her military position, has so far shown herself unwilling to come to any compromise, I have decided to begin to prepare for, and if necessary to carry out, an invasion of England... and if necessary the island will be occupied.'”

    In fact – this is hilarious - Churchill organized an armed citizen militia (those nutty survivalist types… lovable buffoons… where do they get their hair-brained, unenlightened ideas?) called the Local Defense volunteers as the last defense – the pin in the grenade – of keeping an invasion from succeeding and the country from falling.
    Churchill was many things, good and bad. But he wasn't an idiot. If he had believed that "the right to bear arms" in the US sense was significant to defence of a country, then he would have argued this before, during and after the war (especially considering the global situaiton psot 1945).

    However, he did not, because a "people's militia" controlled by the central government and military command, and completely subordinate, is not dependent on "the right to bear arms" in peace time. In fact many of the totalitarian regimes which US gun nuts frequently cite as an example of the tyranny that arises when there is no right to bear arms - the Soviet Union, Iran, Venezuela (well not sure if this is totalitarian - yet - but you get my point) have "people's militias".

    Not to mention Iraq (and look how well that went for them).

    If the gun-loving Americans had not joined the war you’d very likely be speaking either German or Russian.
    Also, if it wasn't for the freedom-hating Russians, I'd also be speaking German (or actually I wouldn't have been born here as my folks to these lands from abroad).

    But what's the relevance of this? I love guns too - in the right hands. I have no issue at all with the US being a military superpower. But I am struggling to see the relevance of your right to buy over the counter rifles, to the fact that the US has the world's most advanced military technology.

    This was only 70 years ago. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it dude.
    Yep. First aurora, then Sandy Hook. Hopefully your town won't be next.

    it won’t ever happen, either. *wink wink*
    Neither of us is psychic, but I struggle to see where the imminent threat of invasion to the UK is coming from, which would justify allowing the pretty much indiscriminate arming of the population (including many who are not exactly "freedom lovers).

    Having said this - if any military power was successful enough to get past the British Army, a nuclear superpower and one of the world's best equipped militaries and wealthiest states, with one of the world's largest arms production industries at its disposal and 10's of millions of healthy young men and women potentially ready to be conscripted - then it would take a bit more than some over the counter rifles to deter them AFTER all that. Don't you think?

    By the way:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    I will use my enhanced, albeit temporary, status upgrade to correct this misrepresentation of history
    You have a funny way of "correcting" me, which involves admitting I was right. Thanks for the "correction".

  4. #31584


    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Aye, I figure it's all lies and jests until a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
    Love "The Boxer" reference, one of my favourite songs.

  5. #31585


  6. #31586


    I want to drink... vodka.

  7. #31587


    Peace of mind, how it proves elusive.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  8. #31588
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008


    Japanese soca/hip hop/reggae? Ok.

  9. #31589


    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Thank you man, likewise! You’re witty, which is very fun and takes good brain.
    I am quite witty, it's one quality I'll admit to.

    Also, my sub-point that the citizens are the final defense in such a situation also stands, regardless of how you want to classify their organization.
    They would have been conscripted into the army by that point, I'd imagine. Either way they would need more than rifles. the whole argument is an irrelevance.

    If it makes you happy to own a gun then who am I to tell you otherwise? Maybe I should be clear, I don't wish to dictate to your country what you should do, and maybe I have come across that way.

    However you guys should be aware of your tone as well. When you tell people that tighter gun control will lead to tyranny and invasion, the rest of us who experience otherwise - and who enjoy the same freedoms as you do - will call bullshit. Maybe some of your population believe those scare stories, and I think they have a right to know the truth.

    So again, I don't want to take your guns away, it's your country and I respect it. But don't expect people to accept the argument that it's a defence against tyranny or invasion. You might as well learn karate or buy a bow and arrow. Warfare has moved on since 1776.

    Nice try, doll. I’ll take the kiss, though.
    I like your style.

  10. #31590
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010


    Soon may the Wellerman come and bring us sugar and tea and rum.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

    My blog:
    TypeC: Adventures of an Introvert

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