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Thread: Random Thought Thread

  1. #26961
    Peace on Earth, dammit Array Thalassa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I blame Fe for the debate style. Highlander and Patches are coerced. If you consider their names in pirate terms, they have clearly just had their roles slapped on them.
    Have you ever been to INTJ forum? Do you really love the moderation style there?

    I think Te types, some IxTJs, have a sense of the rules being the rules, especially ISTJs...and what is fair is to follow the rules, and even if you fall into personal favor, or have extenuating circumstances...there are still rules.

    I think a lot of times with IxTJs they feel that rules aren't fair to their individual set of values, and really can't accept it, where as an Fi dom/aux type might (even though they might "get in trouble" a little more often, such as myself) be more realistic about not being able to always have one's way. That's not mature Fi. Sure you may morally or personally disagree, but even if you bend the rules yourself, you accept in the end that you did break the social rules. That's how it goes with me; even though I know I have my personal Fi reasons, I also accept the reality that I'm not the forum dictator, and that if I choose to continue playing with this social group, I try to understand their social rules. That's just how it is.

    IxTJs for whatever reason sometimes won't accept this, and they're especially loud about it, and I don't know if it's because of their own secret need to be authority figures themselves. I know that one particular INTJ on this site is used to being a sort of authority figure in various legal capacities, and he still complains about the moderation here. JTG told me on more than one occasion about his personal fantasies of being a cop, or about creating order in the middle of social chaos, like cracking the fuck down, and he's the epitome of "train your fucking dog and get your goddamn kid off of my tennis court."

    So maybe it's because you dudes want to be in control yourselves that it bugs you oh-so-much. While the mods on the other hand are living out their authoritarian needs already by being mods, even when their Fi may not fully agree with the forum's Fe.

    To me it always seemed like Invisible Jim wanted to be in control, and this was verified by his brief and hilarious stint as a mod (who was banned) on Personality Nation.

    Soooo....yeah.

    You guys wanna be in control, that's my theory.
    "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul." - Edward Abbey

    "In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." Daniel 10:2-3


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  2. #26962
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireShield98 View Post
    You don't think that it's unfair to prevent me from being able to create another thread like the Shyness thread as long as I don't give away anything about her, including her first name? You also don't think it was unfair to delete the thread explaining what happened to the Shyness thread because of a few posts that went back to talking about her, and also accuse me of "initiating dialogue about her" even though I was not the one who initiated it, I was simply responding to those who mentioned her?

    It's best to just end the discussion of it, since I'm not supposed to even mention her indirectly. I hope the mods will realize how ridiculous they're being though.
    I also want to mention something I was just reminded of: the mod style is actually better than what it used to be. People get a LOT more chances now, a lot of things are let go, and people can get temp-bans if they aren't totally evil.

    One of the things I did argue, though, is that people like @simulatedworld and @JTG1984 should have been grandfathered in under the new temp ban "law" as they were both perma-banned before so many temp bans were given out to people who had committed similar offenses (or worse).

    It's so interesting to me how much arbitrary social judgment can bother some Te types, so to them it really looks unfair. I agree, some of the moderation here has looked arbitrary even to me...but then I was informed that I should start reporting people instead of sitting there waiting for some random to drive by and report me for squabbling back. Because sometimes the mods miss things people do if they aren't a big attention getter, or if something happens at the right place at the right time. In fact, I've noticed that more people who have a personal issue would report me just because I'm me, even though someone else did something equal or worse in the same thread. So that's why I started reporting those people, just recently.

    I didn't used to report people because of my personal ethic of liking to fight my own battles and not be a "snitch" but I realized that self-preservation for my own social life on the forum trumped this value, that it was either relinquish this value a little on the forum, or be potentially perma-banned.

    So if you REALLY have evidence that the mods are truly being unfair, then try to report people you think you're equal to and see how they respond. You might learn something from it.

    Like to me it's totally glaringly obvious what you were doing wrong, and I don't even have Fe, but because of your young age or something maybe you really don't get that you could have been violating some girls privacy, when she isn't even your friend, let alone your gf.

    However, maybe you need to point out these people who you think have done things exactly like you and have the moderators explain to you exactly why what you did was different.
    "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul." - Edward Abbey

    "In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." Daniel 10:2-3


    Fasting for Advent


    Give Vegan


    SEE-Fi /Gamma

  3. #26963
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Have you ever been to INTJ forum? Do you really love the moderation style there?

    I think Te types, some IxTJs, have a sense of the rules being the rules, especially ISTJs...and what is fair is to follow the rules, and even if you fall into personal favor, or have extenuating circumstances...there are still rules.

    I think a lot of times with IxTJs they feel that rules aren't fair to their individual set of values, and really can't accept it, where as an Fi dom/aux type might (even though they might "get in trouble" a little more often, such as myself) be more realistic about not being able to always have one's way. That's not mature Fi. Sure you may morally or personally disagree, but even if you bend the rules yourself, you accept in the end that you did break the social rules. That's how it goes with me; even though I know I have my personal Fi reasons, I also accept the reality that I'm not the forum dictator, and that if I choose to continue playing with this social group, I try to understand their social rules. That's just how it is.

    IxTJs for whatever reason sometimes won't accept this, and they're especially loud about it, and I don't know if it's because of their own secret need to be authority figures themselves. I know that one particular INTJ on this site is used to being a sort of authority figure in various legal capacities, and he still complains about the moderation here. JTG told me on more than one occasion about his personal fantasies of being a cop, or about creating order in the middle of social chaos, like cracking the fuck down, and he's the epitome of "train your fucking dog and get your goddamn kid off of my tennis court."

    So maybe it's because you dudes want to be in control yourselves that it bugs you oh-so-much. While the mods on the other hand are living out their authoritarian needs already by being mods, even when their Fi may not fully agree with the forum's Fe.

    To me it always seemed like Invisible Jim wanted to be in control, and this was verified by his brief and hilarious stint as a mod (who was banned) on Personality Nation.

    Soooo....yeah.

    You guys wanna be in control, that's my theory.
    Simple answer is to appeal to the whatsits, the interaction styles. ITJ, along with IFJ and ITP, chart the course. A somewhat more complex answer rests on a thing I only relatively recently realised: extroverted thinking, for all the staid, rule-making pronouncements, has, in any real life person, an external dynamic element.

    People can, will, and do, do extroverted thinking by themselves. They do get busy focusing on putting together a clear story they approve of for the structure and nature of some stuff outside of themselves they find interesting. And the fact that they conceive this stuff to be outside themselves means they feel free to tell other people about it as if it were true for everyone. But you see, he says, speaking like he's saying something true for everyone, there's more. And this "more" is especially relevant when you're thus far only halfway clear on what it is you're determining. It's this: extroverted thinking works best when you do it in public.

    Actually, psychologically speaking, it does and it doesn't. If you're not adept at handling public interactions, the development of actual determinations of true and false can be waylaid by all sorts of other psychological processes, which we might handily label as "Fi" or "shame, and how you deal or don't deal" or some such thing. Fireshield for example is a kind of case study. But interacting with the environment, testing assertions, pushing for rulings... it stretches the mind and develops the ideas.

    Ergo, bossypants is good pants.

    Every type with an extroverted judgment function and an extroverted perception function (which is every type) does it to a greater and lesser extent, and with a greater or a lesser awareness of it.


    /Considered Position Thread
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #26964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Simple answer is to appeal to the whatsits, the interaction styles. ITJ, along with IFJ and ITP, chart the course. A somewhat more complex answer rests on a thing I only relatively recently realised: extroverted thinking, for all the staid, rule-making pronouncements, has, in any real life person, an external dynamic element.

    People can, will, and do, do extroverted thinking by themselves. They do get busy focusing on putting together a clear story they approve of for the structure and nature of some stuff outside of themselves they find interesting. And the fact that they conceive this stuff to be outside themselves means they feel free to tell other people about it as if it were true for everyone. But you see, he says, speaking like he's saying something true for everyone, there's more. And this "more" is especially relevant when you're thus far only halfway clear on what it is you're determining. It's this: extroverted thinking works best when you do it in public.
    Say, is this why I like to debate with people so much? This also explains why people on the forum think I have tertiary Te instead of inferior.

    Actually, psychologically speaking, it does and it doesn't. If you're not adept at handling public interactions, the development of actual determinations of true and false can be waylaid by all sorts of other psychological processes, which we might handily label as "Fi" or "shame, and how you deal or don't deal" or some such thing. Fireshield for example is a kind of case study. But interacting with the environment, testing assertions, pushing for rulings... it stretches the mind and develops the ideas.

    Ergo, bossypants is good pants.

    Every type with an extroverted judgment function and an extroverted perception function (which is every type) does it to a greater and lesser extent, and with a greater or a lesser awareness of it.


    /Considered Position Thread
    So you're saying he has to do this in order to learn?
    "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul." - Edward Abbey

    "In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." Daniel 10:2-3


    Fasting for Advent


    Give Vegan


    SEE-Fi /Gamma

  5. #26965
    Superwoman Array Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I was just asked if I would accept an 8-week-long project that might actually solve all my current problems. It was just a non-binding inquiry, but I don't have much competition in this geographical area. So if my customer's customer agrees, so will my customer and the job is in the bag. Keep your fingers crossed for me!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Chances for that lifesaver job I mentioned are looking good. Now I have to "pass" a short phone interview on monday morning to convince an engineer that I am capable of translating between two engineers when one of them is explaining the other one some machinery that is so complex this will take 8 weeks...yay!

    Keep your fingers crossed, guys, so far you are doing a good job!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Well, that phone interview seems to have gone quite well.

    But nothing is official yet, so keep those fingers crossed a little longer!
    I got the job!!!!!!!!

    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #26966
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Say, is this why I like to debate with people so much? This also explains why people on the forum think I have tertiary Te instead of inferior.
    We-e-e-ell, who knows, right? Extroversion in anything will tend a person toward interacting with other people and debate is one of the ways to interact. But an interest in debate isn't produced solely by living out the dynamic aspect of extroverted judgment.

    So you're saying he has to do this in order to learn?
    That's part of it. He's testing judgment in public. Alongside that he also has, as he should have, some impressive defenses against being undermined in his current thinking. Which is the way it should be. It's not like anyone proved anything in real life to him yet. And if they tried....


    scarred for life.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #26967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    That's part of it. He's testing judgment in public. Alongside that he also has, as he should have, some impressive defenses against being undermined in his current thinking. Which is the way it should be. It's not like anyone proved anything in real life to him yet. And if they tried....


    scarred for life.
    So, what if the defenses are TOO good and the current thinking is wrong/not socially acceptable/not even in the thinker's best interests? Forget about FS, I'm thinking about my INTJ brother who, in his 30s, stopped bathing (probably due to OCD that he won't seek any help for) and then stopped working and made all sorts of outrageous excuses in his defense (example of an excuse: he wasn't allowed to change the oil in his car, so he couldn't go look for a job. When cousin bought oil, then bro didn't have right tools. When cousin bought right tools, bro hid them and pretended they hadn't existed.) How do you prove anything in real life to a whatevertype who is determined to defend their current thinking no matter what?


    ETA: Or perhaps this is what we ALL do? Some of us just hide it better than others?
    Johari / Nohari

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    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  8. #26968
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    I really hope that milk wasn't spoiled.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  9. #26969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I also want to mention something I was just reminded of: the mod style is actually better than what it used to be. People get a LOT more chances now, a lot of things are let go, and people can get temp-bans if they aren't totally evil.

    One of the things I did argue, though, is that people like @simulatedworld and @JTG1984 should have been grandfathered in under the new temp ban "law" as they were both perma-banned before so many temp bans were given out to people who had committed similar offenses (or worse).

    It's so interesting to me how much arbitrary social judgment can bother some Te types, so to them it really looks unfair. I agree, some of the moderation here has looked arbitrary even to me...but then I was informed that I should start reporting people instead of sitting there waiting for some random to drive by and report me for squabbling back. Because sometimes the mods miss things people do if they aren't a big attention getter, or if something happens at the right place at the right time. In fact, I've noticed that more people who have a personal issue would report me just because I'm me, even though someone else did something equal or worse in the same thread. So that's why I started reporting those people, just recently.

    I didn't used to report people because of my personal ethic of liking to fight my own battles and not be a "snitch" but I realized that self-preservation for my own social life on the forum trumped this value, that it was either relinquish this value a little on the forum, or be potentially perma-banned.

    So if you REALLY have evidence that the mods are truly being unfair, then try to report people you think you're equal to and see how they respond. You might learn something from it.

    Like to me it's totally glaringly obvious what you were doing wrong, and I don't even have Fe, but because of your young age or something maybe you really don't get that you could have been violating some girls privacy, when she isn't even your friend, let alone your gf.

    However, maybe you need to point out these people who you think have done things exactly like you and have the moderators explain to you exactly why what you did was different.
    Well, I know that no one else did anything close to what I did, so I'm not upset with the mods for closing the Shyness thread. However, there are other threads (mainly blogs) where people mention others not on this forum by name. There are also plenty of threads in the Relationships section, for example, that ask for advice on a situation with a specific, unnamed person. I told the mods that if they're not going to let me create a thread where I ask for advice on [the person I was writing about] and keep her unnamed, then they should also delete any and all other threads like that.

    I also think it was unfair for them to close the "About the "Shyness" Thread" thread, because although there were a few posts about her, the majority of the thread was not about that - they simply could have deleted the posts about her, not the whole thread. It was also unfair for them to accuse me of "initiating dialogue about her" in that thread, when I was not the one who initiated it (it was INTP asking if I had asked her out, and then my response prompted you to resume a more detailed discussion of her). I really hate being falsely accused.

    Edit: And believe me, I am used to debating. I do it A LOT - for fun with my friends, and for real with my parents (even though it's useless with them, since they always end up getting their way because they just say something along the lines of "too bad, we're the parents" and then declare themselves the winner and make me do whatever I was arguing against doing - they usually do this when they start losing the argument, which is almost always).
    Also, I don't want to be in control necessarily, I just don't like others controlling me.

  10. #26970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I got the job!!!!!!!!

    Yay! Congrats, Red!

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