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  1. #101
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I have only encountered one person who doesn't want to shop at Wal-Mart because it's full of 'dirty poor immigrants who can't speak English' but IMHO she was pretty ignorant. She said this to a pair of english as second languge immigrants. WTF. I guess she thought we were "okay" because we were educated. She was also always saying things in training (this was for work) that would make everyone including our trainer pause, gasp, or say 'wth'? Mind you, this is someone who for a living would have to interact daily with the 'dirty poor immigrants' she didn't want to shop with.

    Other than her, I haven't encountered anyone who won't shop at Wal-Mart because they don't like poor people. Most of the labor activists I know come from poor/working class backgrounds themselves or else have enough awareness around class issues that if they do have a gut reaction against being with 'unwashes masses' they understand it for -isms and privelege and self-monitor and work on it.

    The only 'group' of people I can think of who might be classist veiled behind good intentions (because I guess, you know, we've gone there with group stereotyping) are green yuppies. The folks who shop at Whole Foods (who have their own history of labor issues) and Trader Joes and buy premium fair trade coffee and $85 organic cotton yoga pants. Because actually, they really really REALLY don't want to rub elbows with commoners.

    Dude, I lived in a whole city with folks like that!

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    /end tangent

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of people who are rebellious because Wal-Mart is a popular place to shop. That's what I meant by counter-culture thinkers -- snobbery at the other end. They are the same kind of people who pound Microsoft because it's the biggest software company and they don't want to fit into a majority. They see that as "being common," so they try to make themselves seem more profound by being loyal to a less popular company.
    I definitely see this in people's taste in music. There are so many indie snobs that assume a record must suck if a lot of people bought it. Which is kind of perverse in a way, because the quality/price continuum is nonexistent in music. All albums cost the same. Fords are more popular than better cars like Mercedes and Lexuses, but that's because they cost a lot less. In a framework where good and bad products cost the same, isn't it a natural assumption that the better products will be more popular?

    As for the people that refuse to shop at Wal-Mart because of its business practices, I would disagree that most of them are insincere. After all, they're paying a premium to shop at other retailers when they would surely get a better price at Wal-Mart. It's more than words, they're putting their money where their mouth is. I do suppose, however, that you could look at it as an "avoiding the riff-raff" tax. I've never been to a Wal-Mart because there has never been one near me, but I think that I would probably avoid them anyway for these reasons, even as an avowed capitalist.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    The only 'group' of people I can think of who might be classist veiled behind good intentions (because I guess, you know, we've gone there with group stereotyping) are green yuppies. The folks who shop at Whole Foods (who have their own history of labor issues) and Trader Joes and buy premium fair trade coffee and $85 organic cotton yoga pants. Because actually, they really really REALLY don't want to rub elbows with commoners.

    Dude, I lived in a whole city with folks like that!

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    /end tangent
    To confess something unsavory, I really dislike these people and I'm not sure I have a good reason for it. I'm sure it's partially because I suspect most visible political activism is an affectation. But they pay more for products that usually aren't any better. I shop at a Whole Foods frequently because it's a block from my apartment, and I can't tell you how many times I've bought one of their "organic" products and found it tasteless.

    I will never say anything bad about Trader Joe's, though. Good food, great prices, nice people, much less of a green/hippie vibe, and Two Buck Chuck.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    I definitely see this in people's taste in music. There are so many indie snobs that assume a record must suck if a lot of people bought it. Which is kind of perverse in a way, because the quality/price continuum is nonexistent in music. All albums cost the same. Fords are more popular than better cars like Mercedes and Lexuses, but that's because they cost a lot less. In a framework where good and bad products cost the same, isn't it a natural assumption that the better products will be more popular?
    A lot of indie snobs as you've described also tend to buy record albums because they claim it sounds better. While I can agree that a record sounds good the first time you play it, the quality deteriorates after it gets scratched up.

    Some indie snobs have been known to prefer the sound of audio cassette tapes...probably even as far as 8-track tapes. Now that's something I'll never understand.

  5. #105
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    To confess something unsavory, I really dislike these people and I'm not sure I have a good reason for it. I'm sure it's partially because I suspect most visible political activism is an affectation. But they pay more for products that usually aren't any better. I shop at a Whole Foods frequently because it's a block from my apartment, and I can't tell you how many times I've bought one of their "organic" products and found it tasteless.

    I will never say anything bad about Trader Joe's, though. Good food, great prices, nice people, much less of a green/hippie vibe, and Two Buck Chuck.
    I don't like yuppies masquerading as fake hippies or 'bohemians' either. However, I think a lot of people who shop at Whole Foods don't even pretend to be political or hippies. They honestly prefer the idea of buying the finer things and being separated from the hoi polloi or non-European immigrants. There's a reason Whole Foods is strategically placed in yuppie and gentrified enclaves in cities.

    I personally like browing through Whole Foods but most cities have small food and farm co-ops where the real dirty hippies, vegans, and locals go. Using bikes and public transportation. 'Nkay? Hahahaha. I'm not sure about the 'pesticide free' thing but aside from the co-ops Asian markets have a lot of fresh fruit and veggies for very cheap.

    BTW, it's pretty easy to be 'organic' by US standards. I only eat vegan for kicks or if I need to eat a small heavy brick of calories. Vegan food is DENSE as hell.

    As for most visible activism being an affectation, that's really a matter of what you consider activism. Again, I totally don't think even the yuppie hippies you speak of would even pretend to be activists or engaging in activism. They honestly don't care. And I totally do not consider that activism. That's an affectation of WORLDINESS and being an educated liberal. At the worst it's the affectation of being spiritual and spiritually more advanced than others when really you're the exact opposite of being very self-absorbed, priveleged, and elitist. These things are VERY VERY different from any sort of political activism.

    Also, as much as the green revolution can have its pretentious people, it's really the only way sustainable blah blah blah and eco-friendly blah blah blah can be viable in a capitalist consumer culture. Affectations go a long way to a healthier planet and people, so I'm not going to complain.

    Well actually I will, but only for a select few.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    As for most visible activism being an affectation, that's really a matter of what you consider activism. Again, I totally don't think even the yuppie hippies you speak of would even pretend to be activists or engaging in activism. They honestly don't care. And I totally do not consider that activism. That's an affectation of WORLDINESS and being an educated liberal. At the worst it's the affectation of being spiritual and spiritually more advanced than others when really you're the exact opposite of being very self-absorbed, priveleged, and elitist. These things are VERY VERY different from any sort of political activism.
    Point well made. I guess I included "politically informed behavior" as activism, when in fact activism is probably too strong a word in this case. You're right, their behavior is probably more an affectation of worldliness in a current climate that makes it unfashionable to enjoy your own culture. As for enjoying the finer things, in my opinion the joke is on them. The prices at Whole Foods are astronomical, and the increase in quality over a Trader Joe's or a Gelson's is negligible.

  7. #107
    Senior Member FallsPioneer's Avatar
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    1. Also an indie music snob. I listen to a ton of "mainstream" stuff but I'm more likely to trust indie bands than non-indie ones if I find a new artist. As for the whole number of people buying CD's thing, that's largely irrelevant to me. I have no idea what's going on about the whole 8-track thing, sounds kinda silly though. I guess I'm a terrible indie music snob. =(

    2. I don't think there's anything special about having messy/dirty hair or clothing. You know Pig Pen from Peanuts? That's lame. I don't dress up all the time, but still, I don't know what the deal is with this.

    3. Sometimes if I'm around people who I think are oblivious or a lot dumber than I am then I become kind of mean.

    4. Every so often I'll get the idea that I am THE absolutely most original and independent (thought, looks, personality) person in the entire school. I don't restrict myself or rebel just to feed this. Anyway, it's an unhealthy thing that I'm trying to stop.

    5. I stay away from most fast food, but because it's unhealthy, not cause I'm too good for it or something.
    Last edited by FallsPioneer; 12-23-2007 at 05:35 PM. Reason: because I wanted to elaborate on some stuff
    Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.

  8. #108
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Can I just throw this new word I just found out there? Pusillanimity. Means "cowardly spirit/contemptible fearfulness." This is one evocative word! It's not just cold feet or occasional jitters. It means someone is consistently faint-hearted and weak of character, it's part of their being. I would be highly insulted if someone called me this after I looked it up. It's etymology is Latin: pusill (petty and small) + -anim(is) (spirited, minded).

    I'm going to have to find a way to work that into a sentence. Until then, I'm putting it here.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  9. #109
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    According to my in-laws I am being pretentious when I use paper napkins instead of paper towels at the dinner table or if I listen to any classical music. Oh yeah and also because I used to know some Japanesse history. I have forgotten much of it now so maybe I am a little less pretentious now...

  10. #110
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    I don't like when the mice are running inside of the house.

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