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  1. #91
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Thank you for agreeing with me!
    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #92
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I remembered that Wolf said it. And you've hit the nail on the head, IMO: the whole "counter-culture fighting-for-the-underdog" thing is just a cover for snobbery. Don't make me shop with poor people, mommy!
    Well, I don't like walmart, but that's because I hate crowds and I have never seen so many people packed into one place... it feels like the stuff is going to collapse in on me. I feel the same in a lot of places, but Walmart is by far the worst I see around here. My own phobias, but it looks the same from the outside.

    Also, it has the highest amount of people who run into me with carts and other associated bad manners. I don't know if that's snobbery, local or what... but I don't like knowing that my heels will be bruised by crazy ladies driving their cart into me... and I really hate being proven right.

  3. #93
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Well, I don't like walmart, but that's because I hate crowds and I have never seen so many people packed into one place... it feels like the stuff is going to collapse in on me. I feel the same in a lot of places, but Walmart is by far the worst I see around here. My own phobias, but it looks the same from the outside.

    Also, it has the highest amount of people who run into me with carts and other associated bad manners. I don't know if that's snobbery, local or what... but I don't like knowing that my heels will be bruised by crazy ladies driving their cart into me... and I really hate being proven right.
    No, I was referring specifically to those who say that they boycott WalMart because of their employment practices. IMO most of them just don't want to shop with poor people. It's snobbery dressed up as virtue. In that regard, at least Wolf is being honest about why he won't go.

    It's not like I LIKE WalMart- the lighting sucks and the lines are often long because I think they're too cheap to have enough cashiers on duty. But it's convenient to me, the prices are good, they carry the natural/organic stuff I buy, and I don't mind shopping alongside "the unwashed masses," so I go.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #94
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    No, I was referring specifically to those who say that they boycott WalMart because of their employment practices. IMO most of them just don't want to shop with poor people. It's snobbery dressed up as virtue. In that regard, at least Wolf is being honest about why he won't go.
    Ahhhh.... that I agree with. I guess that doesn't make me pretentious, because I shop where it is the best value. Unless there are crowds Crowds are my main weakness.

    Damn, I always thought of myself as pretentious... but I'm a lousy snob. I need to reevaluate my life to include more snobbery.

  5. #95
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    I've never had problems with the service at the Wal-Mart I go to. I give the money, I get what I bought. Why do people make customer service more complicated than that? It seems like the people who whine about bad service are being helpless.

    How knowledgeable an associate is about the merchandise of their expertise isn't important to me, mainly because I do thorough research on a product before buying it. I think knowing about the product should be the customer's responsibility.

    The only people I don't like are the greeters, because well, really old people kind of freak me out anyway.

    And technically, I buy stuff where it's the cheapest, which is usually online, but I'm not above (or below) shopping at a popular retailer if I want something quickly.

  6. #96
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    I tend to assume that I am either smarter than everyone around me, or could easily be so with a bit of energy.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    No, I was referring specifically to those who say that they boycott WalMart because of their employment practices. IMO most of them just don't want to shop with poor people. It's snobbery dressed up as virtue. In that regard, at least Wolf is being honest about why he won't go.

    It's not like I LIKE WalMart- the lighting sucks and the lines are often long because I think they're too cheap to have enough cashiers on duty. But it's convenient to me, the prices are good, they carry the natural/organic stuff I buy, and I don't mind shopping alongside "the unwashed masses," so I go.
    I was thinking more along the lines of people who are rebellious because Wal-Mart is a popular place to shop. That's what I meant by counter-culture thinkers -- snobbery at the other end. They are the same kind of people who pound Microsoft because it's the biggest software company and they don't want to fit into a majority. They see that as "being common," so they try to make themselves seem more profound by being loyal to a less popular company.

    People (poor or rich) will display a taste in both "low-culture" films (such as zombie movies) and "high-culture" films (art house cinema) but they'll dismiss everything that is mainstream ("pop-culture") simply because it's popular. But I think dividing movies into "cultures" is ridiculous and that is mostly cause of the elite snobs, who are most likely either rich or academic scholars.

    It's the same deal as the jocks and preppies verse the punks and goths. The goths create an image for themselves by appearing more profound and even tricking their minds into that line of thinking. People also mislead themselves into thinking they're unique because of the freaky nature of the goth subculture, but really, it's just snobbery on the other end.

    And what does being educated have to do with having money? In most cases, formally educated people spend the rest of their lives paying back loans. And the sad thing is they didn't need school or money to become educated, they could've just walked into a library.

  8. #98
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of people who are rebellious because Wal-Mart is a popular place to shop. That's what I meant by counter-culture thinkers -- snobbery at the other end. They are the same kind of people who pound Microsoft because it's the biggest software company and they don't want to fit into a majority. They see that as "being common," so they try to make themselves seem more profound by being loyal to a less popular company.
    Well, that too. I think it's hilarious when people refuse to shop at REI, the outdoors-supply co-op (you join and get a dividend each year) because it's a "big box store." It was cool and counterculture when there were only a few of them- but now that they're really successful, it's not cool to shop there. L-A-M-E.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    It's the same deal as the jocks and preppies verse the punks and goths. The goths create an image for themselves by appearing more profound and even tricking their minds into that line of thinking. People also mislead themselves into thinking they're unique because of the freaky nature of the goth subculture, but really, it's just snobbery on the other end.
    That's often true. Another one that bugs me is when people say things that are purposefully outrageous to seem shocking. *nudge*

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    And what does being educated have to do with having money? In most cases, formally educated people spend the rest of their lives paying back loans. And the sad thing is they didn't need school or money to become educated, they could've just walked into a library.
    This I don't agree with. If you limit yourself to topics that can be learned by yourself from books, you can do that in a library, but for discussions and anything requiring special equipment for hands-on learning, a university is a good place for that. Good luck finding an observatory with specialized telescopes at the public library. And, quite frankly, it makes it easier to find work. That's just a fact of life, maybe unfair, but it's reality.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #99
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uber
    I was thinking more along the lines of people who are rebellious because Wal-Mart is a popular place to shop. That's what I meant by counter-culture thinkers -- snobbery at the other end. They are the same kind of people who pound Microsoft because it's the biggest software company and they don't want to fit into a majority. They see that as "being common," so they try to make themselves seem more profound by being loyal to a less popular company.

    People (poor or rich) will display a taste in both "low-culture" films (such as zombie movies) and "high-culture" films (art house cinema) but they'll dismiss everything that is mainstream ("pop-culture") simply because it's popular. But I think dividing movies into "cultures" is ridiculous and that is mostly cause of the elite snobs, who are most likely either rich or academic scholars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Another one that bugs me is when people say things that are purposefully outrageous to seem shocking. *nudge*

    This I don't agree with. If you limit yourself to topics that can be learned by yourself from books, you can do that in a library, but for discussions and anything requiring special equipment for hands-on learning, a university is a good place for that. Good luck finding an observatory with specialized telescopes at the public library. And, quite frankly, it makes it easier to find work. That's just a fact of life, maybe unfair, but it's reality.
    Nicely said. I agree.

    I claim knowledge about personality theories, especially the Enneagram. That's not really pretentious, though, because I'm a big fan of it and I do know more than most people. I'd probably bristle a little if someone claimed to know more than I do, overall, but I'm certain there are people who do. They're just not the norm.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Well, that too. I think it's hilarious when people refuse to shop at REI, the outdoors-supply co-op (you join and get a dividend each year) because it's a "big box store." It was cool and counterculture when there were only a few of them- but now that they're really successful, it's not cool to shop there. L-A-M-E.
    Now we have Hot Topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That's often true. Another one that bugs me is when people say things that are purposefully outrageous to seem shocking. *nudge*
    If you are referring to me, then perhaps you'll know that I am, in fact, trying to understand why everything is so "shocking" to people, even to the people who are more educated, who, in theory, have been granted the opportunity to see things more objectively. I honestly am not trying to be shocking. My beliefs are just a little unconventional to some people, apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This I don't agree with. If you limit yourself to topics that can be learned by yourself from books, you can do that in a library, but for discussions and anything requiring special equipment for hands-on learning, a university is a good place for that. Good luck finding an observatory with specialized telescopes at the public library. And, quite frankly, it makes it easier to find work. That's just a fact of life, maybe unfair, but it's reality.
    Well, I don't normally feel the need to discuss issues with other people; I have my own thoughts. I'll grant you the specialized telescopes, though. However, I haven't seen those at my community college. Plus, the vast majority of schooling is through books, which are easily accessible at a public library.

    Formal education makes it easier to find work, yes, and that's the reason most people go to school. But to just know and learn things (to be educated) can be done in the library. Personally, I only do well in the subjects that satisfy or relate to my curiosity.

    When I went to school, there was just a horrible bias in the academic world. Many of my professors simply rambled on about their political beliefs like a televangelist converting people to new religions.

    Another thing that sucks about school is how you need to take algebra to get into an astronomy class. Now I suck at algebra but astronomy fascinates me, so because of the dogmatic requirements, I cannot easily be trained academically. Now if I was learning algebra in connection with astronomy, I could feel more worthwhile.

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