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  1. #61
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    So I'd like to understand your POV better. Fire away rather than complaining about them!

  2. #62
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I see that she did, however, have time to ham it up with Lauren (who, incidentally, also declared my ideas ridiculous/the entire thread pointless and then refused to respond to an explanation) via wall posts about what an ignorant moron I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Uhh...read between the lines?
    Heh. That wasn't about you. And it was sent a day ago so is not relevant to OA's presence here. Looks like NFs aren't the only ones that imagine intent that isn't there.

    But I LOL'ed at the first sentence because I pictured OA and I chatting like old girlfriends over tea. "Ham it up." Ha. And rifling through my/her comments makes me feel important for the both of us, so thanks.

  3. #63
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Well folks, I've got to get up for school tomorrow so duke it out yourselves. Have a good night!

  4. #64
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Heh. That wasn't about you. And it was sent a day ago so is not relevant to OA's presence here. Looks like NFs aren't the only ones that imagine intent that isn't there.
    Oh, fair enough. Now that you have explained for yourself, I see that I misinterpreted your intentions. (There now, that wasn't so hard, was it?)

    NFs certainly aren't the only people that do this; they're just the only ones who irrationally cling to these assumptions long after they've been corrected.

    Mistakes are a healthy part of the learning process. It's more important to learn from them than to spend all your time obsessively avoiding them in the first place--they're going to happen anyway, so we may as well stop being afraid of them and take a few chances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    But I LOL'ed at the first sentence because I pictured OA and I chatting like old girlfriends over tea. "Ham it up." Ha. And rifling through my/her comments makes me feel important for the both of us, so thanks.
    As I'm sure you'll see if you look at it for yourself, I clicked on her visitor wall so that I could leave a comment asking for further clarification on one of her claims...not to "rifle through" or dig up dirt or whatnot.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #65
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    As I'm sure you'll see if you look at it for yourself, I clicked on her visitor wall so that I could leave a comment asking for further clarification on one of her claims...not to "rifle through" or dig up dirt or whatnot.
    Regardless of your original intention, you wouldn't have seen the whole conversation if you didn't click "View Conversation," therefore you were rifling. But why am I back in this thread..? Good night, see you later.

  6. #66
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Regardless of your original intention, you wouldn't have seen the whole conversation if you didn't click "View Conversation," therefore you were rifling. But why am I back in this thread..? Good night, see you later.
    I didn't read the entire conversation. I never even clicked on your visitor wall; I only saw the messages from you on hers. Therefore I was not rifling. (In fact, had I bothered to read the entire conversation, I'd probably have realized it wasn't about me, don't you think?)

    I would hope that you're back in this thread because I have a number of concerns that you haven't yet addressed and you want to explain them, but unfortunately I think I know better.

    In the words of Nocap, you stay classy. Keep up that model open-minded behavior; it's a real gem.



    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    SW if you don't want them reading between lines and you want them to use precise speech, you must do the same. Play by the rules, big fella! (Oops, I just told an ENTP what to do! Disregard!)
    Reading between the lines is fine and good; I'm clearly not against the process of intuition. It's just that when your intuition about someone's motivations is directly shown/explained by that person to be wrong, it's time to pick yourself up out of denial and realize that you fucked up in interpretation somewhere.

    ENTPs reach all kinds of inaccurate conclusions all the time, because intuition is always just fundamentally guessing, and we're very curious and like to guess about a lot of things. If we were too afraid to even make guesses, we'd never get anywhere.

    It's not making mistakes in the first place that's the problem. Everybody makes tons of mistakes all the time; it's accepting when you've made them and learning to avoid repeating them that's the important thing.

    Incidentally, I'm the only one who's admitted thus far that my type has any problems regarding this issue. Yes, NTs in general can be callous dicks, and some of us are laughably incompetent at reading people's emotions.

    And yet, I have yet to hear any of my NF opponents in this thread admit any possible wrongdoing on their own parts. (I'm not counting you as an opponent here so much as a facilitator, by the way.)

    That's also telling, wouldn't you say?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #67
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Outrageous.

  8. #68
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Hey SW..I see you're still intrigued by this issue

    I'm going to quote one of our newer members to explain why it is that I sometimes intuit emotions, though I do stay open to the fact that I might very well be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    That brings up a pretty good point, I often get annoyed when people tell me I'm expressing a feeling I don't think I have.

    For instance, I got annoyed pretty quick when people kept telling me I was 'depressed'. I didn't think I was at all because I didn't 'feel' depressed, but now looking back on it I realize that I actually was.

    Kinda strange.

    Also, people often read motivations behind my actions that I don't feel or see at all. I now wonder if they might be right.
    I've often had these reactions, and that's why I keep doing it. I will always try to be careful though, and try to make clear that I'm just suggesting instead of claiming that this might be going on. It's not about winning to me, it's about understanding each other, and this is my way of understanding the other better.

    And yes, I get that it's frustrating that sometimes we cannot explain 'logically' why it is that we think something should be a certain way, but our lack of skill in explaining it shouldn't imo get the original idea dismissed as it may yet have merit. I for one merely suck at explaining it, so I do require more patience from you at that point. But I'll gladly go over it with you till I feel that I was able to communicate what I 'meant' to you, in however a sucky way I do.

    Just my two cents
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #69
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ That's cool...but it really comes off as much more obnoxious/controlling when you start declaring people's thoughts or feelings for them.

    That really doesn't come off as an attempt to relate or understand so much as an attempt to be really fucking annoying (and it works!)


    P.S.,

    Do yourselves a favor and review the responses I got from INFPs in this thread.

    And you wonder why it bugs me that these people consider themselves models of open-mindedness.

    Christ.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #70
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I don't know how I feel about the intuitive approach. I actually deal with a few S people who are really bad at realizing what their motives are or that they even have anything going on under the surface.

    But to me, it's sort of obvious.. it's like seeing a whale tail sticking up out of the water; the tail wouldn't be there if there wasn't a whale attached to it.

    (well, hopefully not, that's sorta gross.)

    It's just, how do I approach that?

    I had to have a beat-out conversation with one of these people last night. I find it exhausting. I did share my thoughts about how they seemed to be operating from certain feelings when they behave a certain way (the behaviors wouldn't happen if they didn't have that source, probably).

    As expected, they fought me on it for an hour... then actually concluded I was right. It's sort of maddening to know what to do, I don't want to be wrong but it's like in a deterministic system; a certain outcome strongly suggests a few particular causes. Things don't exist in a vacuum.

    I don't like people imposing Feelings on me that I don't actually feel... but that's because I'm extremely introspective. I can still empathize with a bit when NFs do this thing, I'm just not sure how else it could be handled.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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