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  1. #121
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I mean, this whole thing about you telling me that you know that my Ni and Ne aren't close is preposterous.

    You don't even know me.

    What is your problem, Simulated? Are you just a shit stirrer?

    Cuz I'm not a bit flustered or upset. Just confused by your tenacity to be right in this thread.
    I've actually spoken with you personally, read a number of threads and considered the implications of enough of your positions that intuition allows me to infer that, given your young age and relative inexperience with typology, it's more probable that you've misunderstood the definition of Ni than that you're just magically super-developed in both.

    Developing non-natural functions is a long and arduous process that requires a lot of work throughout life, and even then it's only semi-close at best. Lots of people enjoy convincing themselves that they're just naturally super balanced and awesome at everything, but this is a delusion. Most of the things you think you're using Ni on are really just combinations of your more natural functions, in most cases. (If you really want to explore this point, why don't you tell me what you think Ni is and how you think you exercise it proficiently on a regular basis?)

    For the record, my Ni isn't very good either, at least not compared to that of most NJs or compared to my Ne. The very fact that you believe yours to be of similar strengths is in itself evidence of typological inexperience/mistaken interpretation of the nature of Ni. (Even MORE humorously, the fact that you'll probably refuse to accept this explanation is ironically even more evidence of comparatively poor Ni.)

    More than anything else, it's because people with good Ni don't make the same mistakes you make routinely. (Even in the process of Fe, Ni would give you enough perspective on this to, at the very least, be able to question the validity of your own position...Ni would not try to infer my emotional state; it would recognize the total subjectivity of all perspectives and probably not even see any reason to have an extended discussion about it. Note how neither of us is showing an Ni attitude here.)

    (I know, I know--"What mistakes?" Ni would already know the answer to that question.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I've actually spoken with you personally, read a number of threads and considered the implications of enough of your positions that intuition allows me to infer that, given your young age and relative inexperience with typology, it's more probable that you've misunderstood the definition of Ni than that you're just magically super-developed in both.

    Developing non-natural functions is a long and arduous process that requires a lot of work throughout life, and even then it's only semi-close at best. Lots of people enjoy convincing themselves that they're just naturally super balanced and awesome at everything, but this is a delusion.

    For the record, my Ni isn't very good either, at least not compared to that of most NJs or compared to my Ne. The very fact that you believe yours to be of similar strengths is in itself evidence of typological inexperience/mistaken interpretation of the nature of Ni.

    More than anything else, it's because people with good Ni don't make the same mistakes you make routinely.

    (I know, I know--"What mistakes?" Ni would already know the answer to that question.)

    1) I'm older than you. What are you talking about my "young age"? Ha ha. I look MUCH younger than I am.

    2) You haven't spoken with me personally. I exchanged a couple of PMs with you where I was kind of playing dumb.

    3) That's funny since I also type as NFJ sometimes, and also have taken two cognitive functions tests where my Ni and Ne were neck and neck.

    4) I don't think I'm awesome at everything. Please. My Te SUCKS. And that's not the only thing.


    5) This thread REALLY needs more cow bell.

  3. #123
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    1) I'm older than you. What are you talking about my "young age"? Ha ha. I look MUCH younger than I am.
    Maybe I've confused you with someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    2) You haven't spoken with me personally. I exchanged a couple of PMs with you where I was kind of playing dumb.
    So...that would involve me speaking to you then.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    3) That's funny since I also type as NFJ sometimes, and also have taken two cognitive functions tests where my Ni and Ne were neck and neck.
    I'm sorry, but having good Ni would also give you enough perspective to realize why cognitive function "tests" are inherently flawed/rather ridiculous. (HINT: They depend on self-report. If the test asks "DO YOU HAS GOOD Ni YES OR NOES???" and you answer "Yes", that doesn't mean you have good Ni.)

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    4) I don't think I'm awesome at everything. Please. My Te SUCKS. And that's not the only thing.
    Right, it's just that Ne and Ni are so so so so much more different than most people realize. Ne is actually far more similar to Se.

    The "tests" and other resources you've read on Ni are based largely on misconceptions and mistaken interpretations of Ni biased by other functions. Unfortunately I don't know enough to explain it to you fully; you'll have to talk to a real NJ (not just an NP who doesn't want to admit lacking in any area involving creativity or perspective-shifting.)


    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    5) This thread REALLY needs more cow bell.
    DING DING DING


    P.S.,

    I peg you for poor Ni because virtually every mistake/misinterpretation I see is pure Fi/Ne. You're way outside the box, but you're so far away from it that you're not looking back at the box itself and breaking down your own biases/problems with your own perception. You're generally not paying attention to why the box is setup the way it is, and you don't see Ni users correcting you on this because Ni doesn't give a shit if anyone else understands the connections that form its perspectives!

    You and I are both far too intent on explaining our positions to the external world to be influenced too much by Ni.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #124
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I mean, this whole thing about you telling me that you know that my Ni and Ne aren't close is preposterous.
    Let's see if I can help a bit here.

    It's a bit misleading to think of Ni and Ne as entirely separate entities. Intuition is one function, with a spectrum of possible orientations (introversion on one side of the spectrum, extroversion on the other). So in order to have equal Ne and Ni, you'd essentially be saying that your value on the introversion to extroversion scale is exactly .5 (if 0 is I and 1 is E or vice versa). So it's definitely possible, but it'd be less clear that your type was actually ENFP. (Unless your total N score was very very high, higher than twice your 3rd highest function out of 8).

    Check out my calculator (in my sig) for a visual. (Sorry to shamelessly self-promote, but I essentially wrote the thing for this exact reason.)

    Edit: just realized I didn't think this through enough. If your Ne and Ni were equal (and higher than any other functions), it'd be impossible to tell whether you were ENxP or INxJ, as type is defined by your dominant function and the highest of the possible auxiliaries. In other words, it would not be possible to be clear ENFP if your Ne and Ni were tied.

    Edit again: this actually brings up an interesting question. In the case I described above, it's possible that your type would be defined by whichever of the ENxPs or INxJs had the highest added value of dominant and aux. I guess that'd probably be the way to go. Definitely not obvious, though. Hmm, I'm going to add that into my calc.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Maybe I've confused you with someone else.
    Hence, the next thing you've said becomes completely null and void.



    So...that would involve me speaking to you then.
    No. Speaking to me involves speaking to me. Actually having prolonged conversations with me. But as you've mixed me up with someone else...



    I'm sorry, but having good Ni would also give you enough perspective to realize why cognitive function "tests" are inherently flawed/rather ridiculous. (HINT: They depend on self-report. If the test asks "DO YOU HAS GOOD Ni YES OR NOES???" and you answer "Yes", that doesn't mean you have good Ni.)
    Yeah dude I get that. You assume too much.




    The "tests" and other resources you've read on Ni are based largely on misconceptions and mistaken interpretations of Ni biased by other functions. Unfortunately I don't know enough to explain it to you fully; you'll have to talk to a real NJ (not just an NP who doesn't want to admit lacking in any area involving creativity or perspective-shifting.)
    If you don't know much about it, how can you jump on me about it? Now that is the pot calling the kettle black indeed.




    DING DING DING
    FINALLY! Something worth reading.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Let's see if I can help a bit here.

    It's a bit misleading to think of Ni and Ne as entirely separate entities. Intuition is one function, with a spectrum of possible orientations (introversion on one side of the spectrum, extroversion on the other). So in order to have equal Ne and Ni, you'd essentially be saying that your value on the introversion to extroversion scale is exactly .5 (if 0 is I and 1 is E or vice versa). So it's definitely possible, but it'd be less clear that your type was actually ENFP. (Unless your total N score was very very high, higher than twice your 3rd highest function out of 8).

    Check out my calculator (in my sig) for a visual. (Sorry to shamelessly self-promote, but I essentially wrote the thing for this exact reason.)

    Edit: just realized I didn't think this through enough. If your Ne and Ni were equal (and higher than any other functions), it'd be impossible to tell whether you were ENxP or INxJ, as type is defined by your dominant function and the highest of the possible auxiliaries. In other words, it would not be possible to be clear ENFP if your Ne and Ni were tied.
    My E and I are extremely close.

    I am not clear what type I am.

    However, I pick P because I sincerely am lacking in the Fe department.

    Thank you for this info.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    P.S.,

    I peg you for poor Ni because virtually every mistake/misinterpretation I see is pure Fi/Ne. You're way outside the box, but you're so far away from it that you're not looking back at the box itself and breaking down your own biases/problems with your own perception. You're generally not paying attention to why the box is setup the way it is, and you don't see Ni users correcting you on this because Ni doesn't give a shit if anyone else understands the connections that form its perspectives!

    You and I are both far too intent on explaining our positions to the external world to be influenced too much by Ni.

    So all of this bitchy overjustification is Ne in effect?

    Seriously, I thought I did that because of Fi.

  8. #128
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Isn't the first thing you do when you read an INFP post, look for the underlying humour? It's sort of good people miss it though. My best mate used to have me on the floor laughing, while others were still taking him seriously. By the way, I'm pretty sure you are INFP not E.
    He's right.


    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    So all of this bitchy overjustification is Ne in effect?

    Seriously, I thought I did that because of Fi.
    Once again, you can't look at this in black and white terms. It's always a combination of both and it can't be directly measured or quantified, which is why cognitive functions tests are bullshit.




    BY THE WAY:


    I would like to hereby formally thank OrangeAppled for making by far the best attempt at useful communication in this thread, and for having the patience to explain all that she did and to do it in such plain and civil terms.

    Hats off to OrangeAppled.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #129
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Let's see if I can help a bit here.

    It's a bit misleading to think of Ni and Ne as entirely separate entities. Intuition is one function, with a spectrum of possible orientations (introversion on one side of the spectrum, extroversion on the other). So in order to have equal Ne and Ni, you'd essentially be saying that your value on the introversion to extroversion scale is exactly .5 (if 0 is I and 1 is E or vice versa). So it's definitely possible, but it'd be less clear that your type was actually ENFP. (Unless your total N score was very very high, higher than twice your 3rd highest function out of 8).

    Check out my calculator (in my sig) for a visual. (Sorry to shamelessly self-promote, but I essentially wrote the thing for this exact reason.)

    Edit: just realized I didn't think this through enough. If your Ne and Ni were equal (and higher than any other functions), it'd be impossible to tell whether you were ENxP or INxJ, as type is defined by your dominant function and the highest of the possible auxiliaries. In other words, it would not be possible to be clear ENFP if your Ne and Ni were tied.

    Edit again: this actually brings up an interesting question. In the case I described above, it's possible that your type would be defined by whichever of the ENxPs or INxJs had the highest added value of dominant and aux. I guess that'd probably be the way to go. Definitely not obvious, though. Hmm, I'm going to add that into my calc.
    So then, does it actually make sense that I as a Fi/Ne/Ni/Te tested INFJ (really INxJ) in a Jesuit high school, tested ENTP (really xNxx) in college while living in a dorm and studying math, and finally self-identified as INFP as an adult working with people? Because I've always wondered how I could change so much in a supposedly fixed system. If my cognitive processes place me on a cusp between temperaments, then that would explain a lot.
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  10. #130
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SciVo View Post
    So then, does it actually make sense that I as a Fi/Ne/Ni/Te tested INFJ (really INxJ) in a Jesuit high school, tested ENTP (really xNxx) in college while living in a dorm and studying math, and finally self-identified as INFP as an adult working with people? Because I've always wondered how I could change so much in a supposedly fixed system. If my cognitive processes place me on a cusp between temperaments, then that would explain a lot.
    I do think types can change if you're on the borderline, and it's not like all the borders only change one letter. If you play around with my calculator, you'll see that lots of counterintuitive types are next to each other by only one slider point.

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