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View Poll Results: Which temperament grouping do you prefer?

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  • Stick with the classic NT/NF. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    9 34.62%
  • I like NJ/NP better. Let's try it!

    17 65.38%
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  1. #1
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Default Temperment Redistricting: NJ Strategists and NP Innovators?

    Well, you knew someone was going to say it eventually. Why are Sensors divided on P/J while Intuitive types aren't? My answer is that they should be.

    The T/F divide is based on the flawed assumption that the judgment functions create the most significant division between the way different Intuitive types process reality, and I haven't found this to be the case. The two biggest dividers tend to be Ti/Fe vs. Fi/Te, or J vs. P, IME.

    I've never seen straight T/F conflict coming into a situation unless it was an ENTJ vs. an INFP, or an ENFJ vs. an INTP, and that can hardly be temperament defining.

    Also, the way the temperaments are currently defined places a connotation of intelligence and academic traits on NTs that may not be deserved, and a connotation of humanitarianism, idealism, and self-sacrifice on NFs that may be equally undeserved. In reality, I've seen little that indicates that this concept is justified.

    You can, however, observe how NJs take similar strategic approaches to life, regardless of whether they apply this to the sphere of people, or the academic/intellectual sphere. You can also (even more easily) observe the similar spontaneous, innovative approach NPs take to life, regardless of whether they're NFPs or NTPs.

    My opinion is that this new arrangement would more accurately reflect the approaches different types of Intuitive types tend to take towards life, while leaving the obvious potential for them to develop in more directions than NT and NF imply.

    So, what do you think? Do you like NF and NT the way they are, or would you prefer my proposed rearrangement?

    (Note that this thread has probably been done several times before, so I've just placed in the fluff zone, as I don't expect it to be taken seriously).

  2. #2
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    I personally don't think that it would work. I have an INFJ friend, and his goal is to see the best in everyone. I know an INTJ who only cares about himself, and sees everyone else as retards. The NF was a bad strategist, and went to stotes and on a band trip. The NT was a good strategist and went to stotes, but had all his homework done beforehand. Read Kiersey's work, and you will see why temperaments work out SP,SJ,Nf,NT.

  3. #3
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Costrin has always, and will likely continue to support this movement. The problem though, is that NT/NF are ingrained in people's heads. Therefore, (good) NP/NJ descriptions need to be written. Course, I don't necessarily think NT/NF is bad, but that NP/NJ could be better, or at least offer a different perspective that could give useful insights.
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  4. #4
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I think NTs have more in common with NTs than they do with NFs, though NFs can be very complementary. I have many NF friends, but I have to work a little harder to speak their language. I don't have to work hard to understand INTJs, ENTPs and ENTJs.
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  5. #5
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortabunt View Post
    I personally don't think that it would work. I have an INFJ friend, and his goal is to see the best in everyone. I know an INTJ who only cares about himself, and sees everyone else as retards. The NF was a bad strategist, and went to stotes and on a band trip. The NT was a good strategist and went to stotes, but had all his homework done beforehand. Read Kiersey's work, and you will see why temperaments work out SP,SJ,Nf,NT.
    I read it. My experience and research has just lead me to see things differently from Dr. Keirsey.

    I'm an INFJ. I'm a pretty good strategist, and I think a lot of people are stupid. I try to see good in people, but it's difficult.



    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Costrin has always, and will likely continue to support this movement. The problem though, is that NT/NF are ingrained in people's heads. Therefore, (good) NP/NJ descriptions need to be written. Course, I don't necessarily think NT/NF is bad, but that NP/NJ could be better, or at least offer a different perspective that could give useful insights.


    That's what I'm going for, a different perspective. One that I think will convey more real information about how the types operate. NF/NT is kind of polarized with the whole super-competent intellectual robot and bleeding emo humanity-lover thing. It's kind of laughable, and conveys little about the approach of any individual NT or NF. SP/SJ conveys a hint of what SJ and SP are about, even if it's exaggerated badly. The NT/NF archetypes go quite wide of the mark.

  6. #6
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I think NTs have more in common with NTs than they do with NFs, though NFs can be very complementary. I have many NF friends, but I have to work a little harder to speak their language. I don't have to work hard to understand INTJs, ENTPs and ENTJs.
    I suppose my reasoning for this is that NFPs and NFJs often struggle to speak the same language also. And I've heard NTJs complain that they have almost nothing in common with NTPs. NTPs usually seem to believe they understand NTJs, though. I have no idea why it's so asymmetrical. It does seem like the Ps believe they "get" the Js, but the Js don't feel that the Ps "get" them.

    Did it occur to you that perhaps NTs are just easier to communicate with because they're typically so much more articulate and precise?

  7. #7
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    I'm all for trying out a new idea that seems to add to the understanding of personality types. I have noticed, for example, that not all NTs are exceptionally genius and not all NFs are soft-hearted humanitarians. In fact, I know an INTP who seems to be quite the humanitarian.

    Then again, I agree with Tallulah, too. NTs and NFs do seem to speak a different language...

  8. #8
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm all for trying out a new idea that seems to add to the understanding of personality types. I have noticed, for example, that not all NTs are exceptionally genius and not all NFs are soft-hearted humanitarians. In fact, I know an INTP who seems to be quite the humanitarian.

    Then again, I agree with Tallulah, too. NTs and NFs do seem to speak a different language...
    Hmm...

    I'm just finding this whole NT language and NF language idea strange, actually. I've found that I have the best communication with other INJs, followed by ENPs. Then in third place are ENFJ and INTP. I don't usually understand INFPs better than any of the other remaining types, honestly. That's just the typical case, though... sometimes I even find an ISFJ that speaks the same language.

    I wonder if it seems that way more to you and Tallulah because you're F and T dominant respectively? Perhaps the reason temperament is so widely accepted is because INPs are the most common of Ns, and it works especially well for them?

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I suppose my reasoning for this is that NFPs and NFJs often struggle to speak the same language also. And I've heard NTJs complain that they have almost nothing in common with NTPs. NTPs usually seem to believe they understand NTJs, though. I have no idea why it's so asymmetrical. It does seem like the Ps believe they "get" the Js, but the Js don't feel that the Ps "get" them.

    Did it occur to you that perhaps NTs are just easier to communicate with because they're typically so much more articulate and precise?
    Despite what I've said elsewhere, the bottom line is still that I don't have to be careful about couching my words around NTs (regardless of J or P) because they understand what I'm saying and they usually don't take things in way I don't mean -- we all parse the comments as information.

    NFs are consistently parsing NT words for value and commitments, and the typical fights that happen are because an NT said something as information that an NF is taking as a values statement and gets upset, disturbed, or offended by. Or the NT didn't care that their comments were vague enough to come across as values statements and needlessly offends NFs.

    In any case, regards of J/P, I need far less care to talk to NTs, while I have to be careful how I say things with NFs so as to not be taken wrong (or I have to know the ones I'm talking to well and vice versa so they know how to read me). Takes more energy.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  10. #10
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    So the question is who is more simiar to me INTP or INFJ ? (generally speaking)

    I would say that in style of thinking it is INFJ but in interests it is INTP.
    Which trait is more important ?

    But if you take everything into equation I would dare to say that INTP is clearly more similar to me. Especially since the function thing is fishy.

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