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View Poll Results: Which temperament grouping do you prefer?

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  • Stick with the classic NT/NF. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    9 34.62%
  • I like NJ/NP better. Let's try it!

    17 65.38%
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  1. #11
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I think it's important to point out, firstly, that every type has something in common with any type.

    I think I relate more to NTs in terms of what drives my being, but I relate to NJs more in terms of my very "being" (however socially constructed/transformative/changing my "self" is) itself.

    I think they both have value.

    I think I would love to see some great NJ/NP descriptions. (Just like I'd love to see some SF/ST descriptions.)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    ...I think I would love to see some great NJ/NP descriptions. (Just like I'd love to see some SF/ST descriptions.)
    I agree, that's worth exploring if anyone has a hankering to start putting some ideas together.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Despite what I've said elsewhere, the bottom line is still that I don't have to be careful about couching my words around NTs (regardless of J or P) because they understand what I'm saying and they usually don't take things in way I don't mean -- we all parse the comments as information.

    NFs are consistently parsing NT words for value and commitments, and the typical fights that happen are because an NT said something as information that an NF is taking as a values statement and gets upset, disturbed, or offended by. Or the NT didn't care that their comments were vague enough to come across as values statements and needlessly offends NFs.

    In any case, regards of J/P, I need far less care to talk to NTs, while I have to be careful how I say things with NFs so as to not be taken wrong (or I have to know the ones I'm talking to well and vice versa so they know how to read me). Takes more energy.
    I thought that was your perspective. Now you've taken a stance. Interesting.

    Would you admit that what you just said is true of T/F in general?

    I suppose this idea won't gain much ground, as invested as people are in Keirsey's temperament views at this point.

  4. #14
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Despite what I've said elsewhere, the bottom line is still that I don't have to be careful about couching my words around NTs (regardless of J or P) because they understand what I'm saying and they usually don't take things in way I don't mean -- we all parse the comments as information.

    NFs are consistently parsing NT words for value and commitments, and the typical fights that happen are because an NT said something as information that an NF is taking as a values statement and gets upset, disturbed, or offended by. Or the NT didn't care that their comments were vague enough to come across as values statements and needlessly offends NFs.

    In any case, regards of J/P, I need far less care to talk to NTs, while I have to be careful how I say things with NFs so as to not be taken wrong (or I have to know the ones I'm talking to well and vice versa so they know how to read me). Takes more energy.
    With mature NFs, those that have developed adequate use of their T function, I find NFJs to be easier to talk with than NTPs. I have less communication problems. But maybe this is from me growing up in an entirely F household.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I think it's important to point out, firstly, that every type has something in common with any type.
    True. I'll admit that.

    I think I relate more to NTs in terms of what drives my being, but I relate to NJs more in terms of my very "being" (however socially constructed/transformative/changing my "self" is) itself.
    Aha! Okay, I can see that in NTs.


    I think I would love to see some great NJ/NP descriptions. (Just like I'd love to see some SF/ST descriptions.)
    That was going to be my next idea if I got some discussion going about this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    With mature NFs, those that have developed adequate use of their T function, I find NFJs to be easier to talk with than NTPs. I have less communication problems. But maybe this is from me growing up in an entirely F household.
    I have heard as much from other INTJs, actually. However, I've often considered that perhaps INJs simply happen to be the worst fit for the temperament system to begin with, and that it works well for all the other types. I probably need to hear from more ENxx types.

  6. #16
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    Also a reason to not change the temperaments: I find ENFP's quite inexplicable, although fun and annoyingly edearing. . They're so irrational, but cute.

  7. #17
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Despite what I've said elsewhere, the bottom line is still that I don't have to be careful about couching my words around NTs (regardless of J or P) because they understand what I'm saying and they usually don't take things in way I don't mean -- we all parse the comments as information.

    NFs are consistently parsing NT words for value and commitments, and the typical fights that happen are because an NT said something as information that an NF is taking as a values statement and gets upset, disturbed, or offended by. Or the NT didn't care that their comments were vague enough to come across as values statements and needlessly offends NFs.

    In any case, regards of J/P, I need far less care to talk to NTs, while I have to be careful how I say things with NFs so as to not be taken wrong (or I have to know the ones I'm talking to well and vice versa so they know how to read me). Takes more energy.
    I completely agree, I find a similar thing with ST vs SF (or vs NF for that matter).

    Is this communication difficulty really the most important thing though? Despite this difference I still find a lot of commonality with ISFPs, for instance. Moreso than ISTJ. It's an important difference, but there are important differences between NJs and NPs, too. If you think about it in non-MBTI terms, we often communicate very well with people who are very different from us, and conflict with those similar. It might be that despite most things in common, a difference in communication styles leads to conflict.

    Anyway, I'll back out since this doesn't really involve me.
    -end of thread-

  8. #18
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    Here's one last area that I notice the diference in between all NT's and all NF's. NF's always want to beleive the best of people. They refuse to see the bad in people, or when they are forced to admit it, they sey something like, a little, or some issues. NT's will often tell things brutally directly, and are often extremely skeptical or pessimistic. For example: an NF and an NT dislike a salad. The NF says something like, "this salad is lacking or has to much of something." The NT says something like "I dislike this salad, or this salad sucks." It's that kind of diplomacy versus directness that divides the N's. I've had to learn to soften my language so that I don't offend people without really intending too. Another example: You tell an ENFP to go to hell and they probably will cry. If you tell an INTP the same thing, they'll ignore you or tell you to go there yourself, or come up with a witty insult right back at you. Also, ENFP's are much more threatened by conflict than INTP's. Most INTP's will face conflict, yet most ENFP's will do anything to avoid it.

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortabunt View Post
    Here's one last area that I notice the diference in between all NT's and all NF's. NF's always want to beleive the best of people. They refuse to see the bad in people, or when they are forced to admit it, they sey something like, a little, or some issues. NT's will often tell things brutally directly, and are often extremely skeptical or pessimistic. For example: an NF and an NT dislike a salad. The NF says something like, "this salad is lacking or has to much of something." The NT says something like "I dislike this salad, or this salad sucks." It's that kind of diplomacy versus directness that divides the N's. I've had to learn to soften my language so that I don't offend people without really intending too. Another example: You tell an ENFP to go to hell and they probably will cry. If you tell an INTP the same thing, they'll ignore you or tell you to go there yourself, or come up with a witty insult right back at you. Also, ENFP's are much more threatened by conflict than INTP's. Most INTP's will face conflict, yet most ENFP's will do anything to avoid it.
    Well, if that's the difference between an NT and an NF, there's no way I'm an NF. I usually make my opinions pretty clear, and I'm hardly optimistic about people. I jump to both positive and negative conclusions about them or make sweeping judgments at times.

    Being opinionated and negative makes one an NT? Interesting. I've never heard that one before. Now I think you might be the most NT-ish NT on this board.

    *tries not to chuckle*

    Anyway, I just have one acronym for you:

    RTFM (because you clearly didn't get it the first time)

    That's all.

  10. #20
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    ! I cannot dissuade you. I shall let you make your case. Argueing with you is like .

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