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  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Not every SJ is like that, not every NT is like that. Stereotypes are retarded IMO when they are taken a bit too far.

    Oftentimes I'll see NTs believe the stereotypes and crusade to enforce them, "this is undeniably true", and this probably is what started a lot of this mess and all of these stereotypes etc on the net.
    That's true, it doesn't apply to every member of a type. But NTs don't address everyone, that's the trick. They address the majority of a type, rather than "exceptions."

    That's how they manage to hold on to that view. To be honest, those NTs can be so convincing and certain of themselves that it can be hard to trust my own reasoning about the subject instead of theirs, in spite of how empty the logic is.

  2. #12
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    [shrug]
    I'm on record for SJ-wub, though only some types.
    Then again, I'm not for change for change's sake. I've noticed it common among INTPs to bitch out SJs, however. To me, SJ hate is folly.

    Then again, I wonder how much of this SJ-joshing is serious and how much is jest that flies over the heads of the audience because there are no gigantic "I AM KIDDING" spoilers.
    I know I've been guilty of making jokes at SJ expense. What's more, it doesn't seem one sided.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That's true, it doesn't apply to every member of a type. But NTs don't address everyone, that's the trick. They address the majority of a type, rather than "exceptions."

    That's how they manage to hold on to that view. To be honest, those NTs can be so convincing that it can be hard to trust my own reasoning about the subject.
    That's probably right on the money. But isn't that how every stereotype progresses? When you only focus on the negative aspects of a particular group, even if the actual negative is a minority, it still seems like they are the majority.

    Maybe, then, our own prejudice against NTs (that they think SJs are all controlling) is our own stereotype playing out?
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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  4. #14
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Then again, I wonder how much of this SJ-joshing is serious and how much is jest that flies over the heads of the audience because there are no gigantic "I AM KIDDING" spoilers.
    I know I've been guilty of making jokes at SJ expense. What's more, it doesn't seem one sided.
    I'd say most of it is in jest. But kidding around can be a legitimate way of airing grievances.

  5. #15
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    I think it's less about individual SJs and more about their collective influence.

    The individual tendency to strongly believe how people should be and how things should be done can feel overwhelming and oppressive on a large scale. Is it unfair to slap the SJ label on those kinds of attitudes? I don't know, ask Myers/Briggs/Keirsey etc.
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  6. #16
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Just to be careful here, *dubious disclaimer*, this topic can be taken as seriously as you want it to be, but I put it in the Fluff forum because it's a direct take off of two other popular topics started by others, meant to be a parody of those.
    Ahhh. It's not the same when you have to explain it.

    I'm going to take your question seriously, (since you don't want me to) and just say that SJ values are mostly anathema to many NTPs, at least. We approach things in completely different ways, with very different priorities, and frequently have difficulty communicating with each other, which can and does lead to conflict. Often around issues of control. SJs like to take it, NTs like their autonomy. I can appreciate individual SJs, whilst not caring for many of their traits. I find it works both ways, but SJs don't bump up against us as much as we do against them.

    EDIT. Actually, I think it's an NP, not necessarily NT thing. I've heard NFPs express similar sentiments, they just tend to be more polite about it.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    I think SJ's in general just get a lot of stick. Us bloody feelers.

    Personally i take no notice, i just laugh it off. The ENTP's amongst you i really do like. INTP's are just to serious for my liking.

    I do enjoy going and looking at the NT forum .. I would post more but i worry that maybe my 2 cents will not carry any weight because i am not supposed to think, be open minded to new ideas and look to better myself on a 'thinking' level. (thats just my opinion).
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
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  8. #18
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    I personally have a harder time relating to SJs than Ns, especially, but this is largely because I have an ISTJ mother, so all of the normal conflict between parent and child was totally exacerbated with us. She'd insist I do things the "right" way, I'd question what makes it better than another system, she'd accuse me of laziness, etc. I think the core prob is that the things which NTs most value about themselves- their ability to question, to probe, to innovate- are viewed somewhat suspiciously by SJs in particular. And vice versa. SJs tend to value their own hard work, dedication, etc. The two aren't mutually exclusive, but it leads to over-generalized resentment on each side. NTs see SJs as sticks in the mud, holding back progress, and SJs see NTs as lazy, undisciplined, and flying by the seat of their pants. It doesn't have to be this way, of course.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmandahalf View Post
    I personally have a harder time relating to SJs than Ns, especially, but this is largely because I have an ISTJ mother, so all of the normal conflict between parent and child was totally exacerbated with us. She'd insist I do things the "right" way, I'd question what makes it better than another system, she'd accuse me of laziness, etc. I think the core prob is that the things which NTs most value about themselves- their ability to question, to probe, to innovate- are viewed somewhat suspiciously by SJs in particular. And vice versa. SJs tend to value their own hard work, dedication, etc. The two aren't mutually exclusive, but it leads to over-generalized resentment on each side. NTs see SJs as sticks in the mud, holding back progress, and SJs see NTs as lazy, undisciplined, and flying by the seat of their pants. It doesn't have to be this way, of course.
    Exactly! So let's brainstorm some ways in which both SJs and NTs, on this forum at the very least, can start to get along better!
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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  10. #20
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Exactly! So let's brainstorm some ways in which both SJs and NTs, on this forum at the very least, can start to get along better!

    Damned NFs and their ulterior motives!

    I hadn't noticed that they don't get on on this forum. Examples? There aren't many SJs here are there?

    I think we mostly just don't interact much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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