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  1. #11
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Has anyone said "make him read BlueWing's posts" yet?

  2. #12
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    I think tickling is a good alternative. If the suspect is ticklish.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
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  3. #13
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Bottom line is this my friends. If it is deemed necessary by our government or any other with properly trained interrogators, it is not a matter of "if" the desired information can be extracted from a prisoner, it is a matter of "when." The trick is though if the poor fellow doesn't have what they are looking for, they must convince the oppressors of such said reality, whilst still enduring whatever awful torture or interrogation techniques deemed useful.

    I'm sorry to say that although I do not agree with torture, there are times when it might be necessary to do whatever it takes at all costs to get information from an identified violent individual (serial killer, murderer, rapist, "terrorist", etc.) in order to save innocent lives. Do I care if the civil rights of a man who has three young women buried alive in three different locations across a state are violated if it results in finding the victims before they die? Hell no. There are certain events that once people perform, I take them out of the "you deserve human decency like all the rest of God's children" category. Murderers, rapists, domestic violence offenders, thse type of scum would have very little rights at all, and quite possibly not even a pulse if I were in charge of the nation for a few days. Screw them. Torture away. Game on!

  4. #14
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Bottom line is this my friends. If it is deemed necessary by our government or any other with properly trained interrogators, it is not a matter of "if" the desired information can be extracted from a prisoner, it is a matter of "when." The trick is though if the poor fellow doesn't have what they are looking for, they must convince the oppressors of such said reality, whilst still enduring whatever awful torture or interrogation techniques deemed useful.

    I'm sorry to say that although I do not agree with torture, there are times when it might be necessary to do whatever it takes at all costs to get information from an identified violent individual (serial killer, murderer, rapist, "terrorist", etc.) in order to save innocent lives. Do I care if the civil rights of a man who has three young women buried alive in three different locations across a state are violated if it results in finding the victims before they die? Hell no. There are certain events that once people perform, I take them out of the "you deserve human decency like all the rest of God's children" category. Murderers, rapists, domestic violence offenders, thse type of scum would have very little rights at all, and quite possibly not even a pulse if I were in charge of the nation for a few days. Screw them. Torture away. Game on!
    Yeah know what you are saying Halla but I think that's not the way to go. I'm the kind of guy who reserves the right to protect his loved ones however he sees fit...but the minute you let the Law (who should be impartial) be swayed by this sort of thing it becomes incoherent which it must never be, in order to be "morally superior".

    Something that goes against human rights should never be permitted, no matter what. From a law standpoint I mean.

  5. #15
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Yeah know what you are saying Halla but I think that's not the way to go. I'm the kind of guy who reserves the right to protect his loved ones however he sees fit...ut the minute you let the Law (who should be impartial) be swayed by this sort of thing it becomes incoherent which it must never be, in order to be "morally superior".

    Something that goes against human rights should never be permitted, no matter what. From a law standpoint I mean.
    Hello my Portugese friend! Please refer to the bolded above, and consider my note below. It seems we agree it is just and good to reserve the right to protect our loved ones as we see fit. My question to you is this. What if you are not aware that one of your loved ones is potentially in great danger? What if you cannot be contacted? What if the authorities have a known killer in custody and evidence that your loved one has been abducted by this person and in a situation that guarantees their death should action not be taken quickly? Do the killer's rights and "moral superiority" take precedence over the life of your loved one?

    Again, a drastic example, but that's kind of my point, drastic times call for drastic measures. I am not one to advocate a police state at all, but I am also not one that desires to live in a world where violent criminals are allowed to wreak havoc on the innocent in the name of moral superiority.

    Do you see where I'm coming from? We can agree to disagree, it's all good, just dumping my perspective as I always do.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Hello my Portugese friend! Please refer to the bolded above, and consider my note below. It seems we agree it is just and good to reserve the right to protect our loved ones as we see fit. My question to you is this. What if you are not aware that one of your loved ones is potentially in great danger? What if you cannot be contacted? What if the authorities have a known killer in custody and evidence that your loved one has been abducted by this person and in a situation that guarantees their death should action not be taken quickly? Do the killer's rights and "moral superiority" take precedence over the life of your loved one?

    Again, a drastic example, but that's kind of my point, drastic times call for drastic measures. I am not one to advocate a police state at all, but I am also not one that desires to live in a world where violent criminals are allowed to wreak havoc on the innocent in the name of moral superiority.

    Do you see where I'm coming from? We can agree to disagree, it's all good, just dumping my perspective as I always do.

    Yeah I see where you are coming from. Obviously if I were in that situation I couldn't care less what they Law said...I would just want them to do whatever it took to get my loved one home safe and sound.

    But that is just it. The Law is all about compromises and mediation. For example...that man who enters the court of law and shoots his daughter's rapist and murderer....I understand his behaviour...it must be painful enough a happening for it to trigger such a thing...I mean...I might do the same I dunno...BUT that does not mean I would seek understanding near the Law. I killed a man. I broke the law myself just as the rapist and murderer did in the first. My conscience might be clear but I don't expect the Law to have pity on me. It's about facing the consequences.

    So again, yeah I see where you are coming from, but for such a complex system to work it is my belief that you can't set any precedents.

    Plus there is always the chance the people on trial or being tortured aren't really guilty. That's just too great a risk to take to do such a barbaric thing.

  7. #17
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    For example...that man who enters the court of law and shoots his daughter's rapist and murderer....I understand his behaviour...it must be painful enough a happening for it to trigger such a thing...I mean...I might do the same I dunno...BUT that does not mean I would seek understanding near the Law. I killed a man. I broke the law myself just as the rapist and murderer did in the first. My conscience might be clear but I don't expect the Law to have pity on me. It's about facing the consequences.
    Agreed, my conscience would be clear in such a situation too, but as you I would not expect pity from the Law. In all honesty I have to say it would be best to try and make that happen and not get caught!


    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Plus there is always the chance the people on trial or being tortured aren't really guilty. That's just too great a risk to take to do such a barbaric thing.
    True! They are the other side of the coin of the many people that commit heinous crimes that never get caught or do get caught and get away with it. I'm no statistician, but I'd say the number incarcerated/tortured that are innocent most likely are few in number compared to those that are guilty and have gotten away scott free... Whatcha' think? And I'm not saying one justifies the other, BTW, just being a mouthy ESTP.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Agreed, my conscience would be clear in such a situation too, but as you I would not expect pity from the Law. In all honesty I have to say it would be best to try and make that happen and not get caught!




    True! They are the other side of the coin of the many people that commit heinous crimes that never get caught or do get caught and get away with it. I'm no statistician, but I'd say the number incarcerated/tortured that are innocent most likely are few in number compared to those that are guilty and have gotten away scott free... Whatcha' think? And I'm not saying one justifies the other, BTW, just being a mouthy ESTP.
    I was discussing a semi-related topic (the Law's scope and relativity etc) with my brother the other day and I realize that yeah....I just like to aim for perfection. I think that one should focus on making every piece of machinery work properly on it's own and the actual whole...the machine...the system...will no doubt work like it should because of that. I'm not a fan of solving problems with other problems. It's no doubt the NF idealism in me coupled with my P which likes to make the most well informed and balanced decision possible at all times.

    And my answer to that is...inject them with truth serums or whatever...just don't harm them too much, otherwise you as a police officer or whatever, just lose your credibility and/or authority. In my eyes anyways. That is also part of my ENFP nature too, I guess. I don't recognize authority lightly (if at all...in the bottom of my heart). So if they want me to play by their rules they better have a system that makes sense.

    So, yeah, the fact some criminals get away doesn't stop me from wanting the most coherent and balanced solutions of them all. AGAIN and to clarify...for the system. I'm taking into consideration that it's something that affects everybody, the suspects included.



    ETA: I just realized, all three of my posts have too many typos and too few commas, but I wrote them in a hurry so sorry about that.

  9. #19
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    I see where you are coming from my friend.

    And don't worry about the typos and punctuation, this is not a MLA or APA forum.



    May the good guys prevail!

    Cheers fella!

    -Alex

  10. #20
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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