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  1. #51
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, they are opposites. But I consider Fe to be adjusting/understanding an internal (emotional) system via external (social) rules, and Ti to be adjusting/understanding an external system via internal rules.
    That is my understanding as well. And it balances quite nicely, don't you think?


    Note that one does not need Fi or Ti in order to use Fe or Te. Fe people can "learn the system," Te people can learn "how things are accomplished." It is simply that Fe or Te unguided by the internal sense of definition can sometimes run far astray, implementing and doing things that are inappropriate or that do not make sense.

    (Meanwhile, the inner functions often remain unmanifested without the external functions to express themselves through.)

    I usually talk about theory, but I've heard Ni works differently from Ne. Ni is following one perspective/possibility, and then switching to another. Ne is being aware of all the possibilities inherent in the given situation at one time, with somewhat less awareness of where those possibilities lead, as far as I know. Basically, people with Ne have the ability to perceive several ideas at once, but with less depth. Is that how it works for you, or is it different than I've heard?
    Ne to me seems based on the external input stream. With Ne, I look at something in real life, and I see all the possibilities realistically inherent in it. It has a connection to the tangible.

    Ni seems more more abstract to me. rather than seeing the possibilities inherent in the world, I see all the possibilities in how I can reorient myself to the data stream.

    So Ne is more about seeing the possibilities of external reality, while Ni is about shifting my own perspective/orientation inside and seeing the world in a different way.
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  2. #52
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Ne to me seems based on the external input stream. With Ne, I look at something in real life, and I see all the possibilities realistically inherent in it. It has a connection to the tangible.
    Yes, but are you actually capable of thinking about all of the possibilities at once, or just one or two at a time? An INTP I knew claimed he could perceive all of them at once, and that made me fairly positive that I never use Ne, since I can't perceive all connections at once, but rather one or two at a time.

    Ni seems more more abstract to me. rather than seeing the possibilities inherent in the world, I see all the possibilities in how I can reorient myself to the data stream.

    So Ne is more about seeing the possibilities of external reality, while Ni is about shifting my own perspective/orientation inside and seeing the world in a different way.
    Okay, then. So, would I be considered able to do both of those, or just Ni? I don't know what Ne would manifest as in my case, since I've heard that it's not symbolic/linguistic in the nature of it's connections. Since I tend to think in words, I may theoretically be unable to use it at all.

  3. #53
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, they are opposites. But I consider Fe to be adjusting/understanding an internal (emotional) system via external (social) rules, and Ti to be adjusting/understanding an external system via internal rules. I'm capable of either to some degree. I don't know if I use Ti well, although I'm sure I've used it. The descriptions of it make it look too basic to be a correct assessment of how it works in people who potentially have it as a strong skill. They make it look like some kind of basic analysis/categorization skill almost everyone would need to have to get through life, and I'm sure that's not the case.




    I usually talk about theory, but I've heard Ni works differently from Ne. Ni is following one perspective/possibility, and then switching to another. Ne is being aware of all the possibilities inherent in the given situation at one time, with somewhat less awareness of where those possibilities lead, as far as I know. Basically, people with Ne have the ability to perceive several ideas at once, but with less depth. Is that how it works for you, or is it different than I've heard?
    Yes I believe that is essentially how Ni and Ne work. Ni is more focused and is also inclined to view things traveling in a direction (e.g. the future). Ne is less focused and tends to view many things at once putting them together into a coherant form seeing many/all possibilities at once, but doesn't necessarily follow them, because it is not as direction oriented (e.g. future oriented).

    At the same time I don't believe that Ne and Ni are totally unrelated to one another. People who are dominant in one tend to also be fairly strong in the other. Also, regardless of whether a person uses Ne-Ti or Ni-Te they generally reach the same conclusions. It's just a different approach. (Likewise Ne-Fi and Ni-Fe are different approaches that yield very similar outcomes.)

    So, Ne may not come easy to you now, but it seems like it is something that should. I believe that by simply using Ni in a variety of ways, you'll naturally develop Ne as a side effect, especially if you engage in more extraverted activities. I think it's something like working out. If you work out one set of muscles, then often there will be related muscles that will get something of a lesser workout.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Perhaps you could get Shimpei to comment on her identification with you or lack thereof?
    I don't know, athenian, you say a lot of bullshit, you can't be an ISFJ.


    (J/K )

  5. #55
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    I don't know, athenian, you say a lot of bullshit, you can't be an ISFJ.


    ---

    athenian200, I recently recalled an INFJ your age that I have known IRL.

    He was (I'm going to use the past tense since I haven't seen him in a year) crazily iNtuitive, so much so that he often came across simply as crazy. He wasn't grounded at all and his Fe was undeveloped to boot, so his groan-and/or-cringe-inducing interaction with others consisted of him insistently pursuing his own speculative tangents (seeking acknowledgement of his erudite insights, I think), seemingly unaware of all social conventions, such as checking to see whether one's audience is interested (it usually wasn't).

    As soon as I remembered him I also thought that I bet he would post like you do (no offense intended - I actually had sympathy for the guy in spite of my description). ...Incidentally, my close male INFJ friend (who's 33) has told me that he was socially clueless until his mid-twenties. Apparently (some?) male INFJs are late bloomers.

    All this means that, FWIW, I have you mentally categorized as an INFJ now - and that I'll probably be referring to you as a 'he' instead of a 'she' from now on. (Good thing you never told me your gender. )

    (So... Do you identify with Marilyn Manson? )

  6. #56
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post


    ---

    athenian200, I recently recalled an INFJ your age that I have known IRL.

    He was (I'm going to use the past tense since I haven't seen him in a year) crazily iNtuitive, so much so that he often came across simply as crazy. He wasn't grounded at all and his Fe was undeveloped to boot, so his groan-and/or-cringe-inducing interaction with others consisted of him insistently pursuing his own speculative tangents (seeking acknowledgement of his erudite insights, I think), seemingly unaware of all social conventions, such as checking to see whether one's audience is interested (it usually wasn't).

    As soon as I remembered him I also thought that I bet he would post like you do (no offense intended - I actually had sympathy for the guy in spite of my description). ...Incidentally, my close male INFJ friend (who's 33) has told me that he was socially clueless until his mid-twenties. Apparently (some?) male INFJs are late bloomers.

    All this means that, FWIW, I have you mentally categorized as an INFJ now - and that I'll probably be referring to you as a 'he' instead of a 'she' from now on. (Good thing you never told me your gender. )

    (So... Do you identify with Marilyn Manson? )
    I'm somewhat offended that you would describe me as "crazily" intuitive, and call my social skills underdeveloped. I simply use this message board as an outlet for my Intuitive tendencies, and would never simply say what I thought in public. I simply assumed that in a forum such as this, there would be greater interest in my ideas. And I just assumed that if people didn't take interest, then it wouldn't hurt me at all, because this isn't reality.

  7. #57
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I'm somewhat offended that you would describe me as "crazily" intuitive, and call my social skills underdeveloped.


    I see I got too carried away by my recognition to think twice about making it public or to make a proper disclaimer. There's no taking it back, but I can at least make the disclaimer: While I do think you have some ivory tower tendencies and while I seem to recall having read that you have few friends IRL, I'm not claiming that you are anywhere near as immature as this guy. Incidentally, as I implied, the guy did have something going for him - when I could wrap my mind around them those erudite insights of his weren't bad at all.

    But, uh...


  8. #58
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post


    I see I got too carried away by my recognition to think twice about making it public or to make a proper disclaimer. There's no taking it back, but I can at least make the disclaimer: While I do think you have some ivory tower tendencies and while I seem to recall having read that you have few friends IRL, I'm not claiming that you are anywhere near as immature as this guy. Incidentally, as I implied, the guy did have something going for him - when I could wrap my mind around them those erudite insights of his weren't bad at all.

    But, uh...

    It... isn't your fault, Economica. I have certain issues that your post hit a little too closely (not even in the areas I targeted), and I defended myself where I should have been more accepting. Not to mention I just had two power surges causing me to lose my work, and was in the middle of debating a point with a friend.

    So...



    For you, too. You didn't say anything that should have offended me based on what you know of me.

  9. #59
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Phew!

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    It... isn't your fault, Economica. I have certain issues that your post hit a little too closely (not even in the areas I targeted)
    Ten bucks says you're a recovering Marilyn Manson fanatic.

    ... On second thought, you're probably too young for that. (What do the unhappy kids listen to these days?)

    Anyway: Friendly again?

  10. #60
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    heart, are you angry with me or something?
    Sensitivity like that corresponds to Keirsey's NF grouping.

    There is a gentleness about you that is particular; you have been more determined in interaction than other INFJs but behave similarly. During my time on this forum and, previously, on INTPCentral, only two males initially identifying themselves as INFJs diverged from other forumers so described: an oddball who went ape over good-natured ribbing about a crush and magnets on his guitar amp; and my argumentative self.

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